"Having a hold on their players seems to be a problem the organization has dealt with the past few seasons. Both Nerlens Noel and Embiid have been fined thousands of dollars for tardiness through the years and Brown said one of the priorities of training camp was to instill the importance of players being on time and learning how to be adults."
I didn't know that Noel has been late often to practices. Was this general knowledge? This just gets better.
Great summation, Brian. Made my day. Your straight, trenchant commentary has been missed. Who do you like at the point, Canaan, Sampson or McConnell? ;)
I almost fell out my chair when i saw this banner, and it was way too tempting to not come back and comment.
I don't necessarily believe every word of the Embiid article, but the diet and Shirley Temples i do believe, and that just screams bad news to me. believe it or not, I was still holding on to hope that in 2016 Embiid would come back 100% as the next Olajuwon and Saric would come over as a high-level contributor. Low probability perhaps, but these are things that NEEDED to happen for the plan to be successful. this Shirley Temple news, to me, drastically reduces that probability from what may have admittedly been higher in my mind than in reality..
that said, I am not disappointed with this path, its more comedy than upsetting or angering to me. I can care less about winning 44 games. i know that others may feel different. Embiid was the right pick.. so was Okafor. While i love okafor's attitude and dedication, the lack of post presence is as disturbing now as it was when i called it out in his 1st summer league game. the guy might be one of these 48% shooting PFs along with 50% from the line. hopefully his work ethic will pay off with conditioning and better FTs.
if a guy can't eat healthy food prepared for him and sits around getting drunk, he probably doesn't have the intangibles to be great. although I've heard other players eating tons of candy and still playing at a high level, and in the 70s the players smoked in the locker room, so who really knows.
Steve
thanks for the clarification ! I assumed it was alcohol. not sure why its newsworthy to report someone guzzling kool-aid .. buts its funny nonetheless.. maybe i was too harsh on Embiid.. he is a freak athlete so maybe he doesn't need to drink wheatgrass. what exactly is a shirley temple anyway ?
Sarsasparilla, the granddaddy of all root beers, is for gamechangers. Saloon-style sugary drink for greenhorns who dream of being rootin' tootin' cowboys. Fetch yourself one, pardners. And then lend this Embiid feller a clue.
With less "incentive" to lose, I am optimistic going into the season. So long as the Kings are bad, I don't expect many steps backward. The toughest part will be the lack of chemistry early on, but I expect the 76ers to be competitive in the last 2/3s of the season.
The streaky shooting will keep the 76ers in games. The defense will struggle, but Noel's emergence as an anchor will be more and more apparent. Okafor will do it differently every night, he will have obvious holes in his game but show flashes of offensive brilliance which result in an improved half court offense.
The negative tone will switch to "well aren't we just back where we started?" when the 76ers look competitive to sneak into the 8th seed.
i am optimistic as well. that we get the next Olajuwon in 2016, Saric, and 4 first rounders. this season , i put the over/under at 20 wins. this team is terrible. I think Okafor may actually be net-negative at this point. if you are going to be a 50% FT shooter you better shoot 70% FGs ala Deandre Jordan or else the inefficiency kills the team softly.
"With less "incentive" to lose, I am optimistic going into the season. So long as the Kings are bad, I don't expect many steps backward."
Taking steps backward would be a fairly impressive feat. If last year's team won 18 games then that appears to be close to their natural floor.
There may not be more incentive to lose but I don't perceive any sudden incentive to win either. If Hinkie wanted to upgrade the probability of winning significantly, he probably had the ability to offer Denver a more attractive package for Ty Lawson than Houston did.
Even after two rock bottom years, increasing wins in the present just doesn't appear to be much of a priority for management. The SI article is probably right. Harris is OK with Hinkie because their focus is on stacking intangible assets for the next owner. On the other hand, the executive responsible for marketing and promotion probably feels like he has the most thankless job in professional sports.
4 1st rounders aren't what they used to be. Embiid's a huge question mark. Saric: cultural acclimation time + confrontation with NBA realities + dad influence + contractual obligations/rights = another question mark.
thanks, DB.
no doubt we find ourselves in a high-risk position for having any sort of future....but also high reward.... have you seen Saric play ? the guy is salivating. and we all know Embiid was the best college player in years. so ill keep my positive view for now, until i hear Embiid is dumping Everclear into his Shirley Temples.
Anyone know when we have to finalize the roster? i see 20 players on the Sixers roster, and i have not followed close enough to know what the likely final product looks like. can someone post our likely final depth chart?
Rosters must be pared down by 10/26. My guesstimated opening night roster and depth chart:
5 - Jalil, Furkan
4 - Nerlens, Carl Landry, Christian Wood
3 - Covington, Jakarr Sampson, Jeremy Grant
2 - Sauskas, Hollis Thompson
1 - Canaan, Pierre Jackson; Wilbekin
Injured - Wroten injured until December, Kendall Marshall injured until mid-November
On bench tweeting while drinking Shirley Temples - Joel
The little I've seen of Wood makes me want to see more. I think he and Holmes both make it. Hell I'd rather see Holmes and Wood both make it over Aldemir.
No opinion yet on Tokoto except that I can see his potential on D.
This is the worst crop of "PG"s I have ever seen. It is painful watching them play. All of them are bad (although at least McConnel has the knowledge to play the position, just not enough talent). Honestly, none of them should make an NBA roster. Overall I've been patient with most of what Hinkie has done, but there is no excuse to not have a single NBA caliber point guard available to start the season. It reminds me a little bit of the PG play through the first part of the '97 season before we traded a second round pick for Eric Snow. I hope there is an "Eric Snow" that we can get before the start of the season.
Steve-
Saric is a really valuable chip to have. I dont think the posters here realize how good this guy is. 2016 is going to be very promising when Olajuwon is healthy, saric is here, and Ben simmons is a Sixer.. Simmons is a can't miss prospect. then we will see how all these current non-factors affect how free agents feel about coming to philly
i always thought i had a great name to blog with, but i am clearly outshined here by a guy who simply calls himself 'Sharone Wright'. on that note, i remember not being able to contain my excitement when the Sixers drafted Wright and BJ Tyler, unfortunately never working out as the next Stockton/Malone.
I was pretty exited about Turner. I knew he wasn't going to be an elite player, but I thought he was at least going to be decent scorer. It was also kind of interesting to have a lineup where the SF, SG, and PG could be the primary ball handlers. I thought with Turner the team would be able to get to the conference finals. Maybe even be in position to acquire a big name free agent after Dalembert and Kapono's contracts were off the books the following year.
Then I got excited about Bynum and then later with Embiid. And now I say fuck it. I'll refuse to be excited until after they win a title.
i never gave Turner an ounce of prospective NBA value. in fact, somewhere on this board, i am quoted saying that we should take Cole Aldrich instead of ET, and i wasn't joking. obviously that would not have been good, but scary how it would not be much worse.
In the Hinkie era, i have no 20/20 hindsight to offer on the Sixers picks and have been on the same page with every pick they make. thats why i get out of bed for the Sixers everyday. much brighter than the days of passing on paul pierce.
we should consider ourselves lucky the lakeshow took deangelo russell , another non-translating, overrated big-10 guard.
Was thinking last night while watching that pathetic display of slop, most teams' fans are watching their favorite squads and seeing how their staffs are sorting out rotations and different player combinations to end the preseason. Whereas Sixers fans are fervently discussing and attempting to pare down who the hell is going to be the 14th or 15th man on this putrid excuse of a roster. A player who likely has no business even being fortunate enough to play on this level.
"THAT", is what the hell our fanbase and rooting interests has been reduced to. What a joke!
Like, our once feverish fandom, no matter what side of the fence you're on, has reached the depths of literally discussing mostly garbage players like Christian Wood, Richaun Holmes, TJ McConnell, and Pierre fucking Jackson. And please don't critique my post and think that I left out the otherwordly talents of Furkan Aldemir and JP Tokoto.
And this is in year 3 of what was once being sold as a "rebuild". Does sense of urgency even exist anymore? Or maybe I never realized that patience existed so infinitely.
This shit sucks! As someone said above, Fuck it!
Fuck it!
Fuck it!
thats definitely one perspective.. was just on the phone with another sixer fan talking about how its oct 2015, on the cusp of a 20 -win season, but giddy like we are punch-drunk on shirley temples , talking about how good Noel is (quick mans ben wallace and best defender in the NBA) , Sarics arrival , and the prospects Embiid being one of the NBA greats.
How is it possible to have the words "NBA greats" and Embiid in the same sentence? From brains, to attitude, to fragility, there is nothing that even hints to him playing, let alone NBA greatness.
"the prospects of..... NBA greats.." just like Wiggins was (and still may be ) the next Durant.,,., Embiid, who would have been picked ahead of Wiggins, is the next Olajuwon
"the prospects of..... NBA greats.." just like Wiggins was (and still may be ) the next Durant.,,., Embiid, who would have been picked ahead of Wiggins, is the next Olajuwon
This made me laugh really hard because it is absolutely true. I admit it 100%.
We basically have a team full of "this guy might have some upside so we should keep him on the end of the bench". I remember thinking Jumaine Jones, Arnett Moultrie, Mo Speights, (I am forgetting tons of others).
Despite all of that, I am looking forward to the season actually starting. I am hoping to see some type of steady rotation that can compete.
@ShamsCharania Philadelphia's Robert Covington has been diagnosed with sprained right MCL and bone bruise in knee, source tells Yahoo. Expected out 2 weeks
Meaning he will be out 3-4 weeks under our med team, BUT that is a huge relief.
For sad optimistics like myself, I now will inevitably feel as though we are waiting to see our true lineup of Marshall Stauskus Covington Noel Okafor for at least a month,
Meaning he will be out 3-4 weeks under our med team, BUT that is a huge relief.
For sad optimistics like myself, I now will inevitably feel as though we are waiting to see our true lineup of Marshall Stauskus Covington Noel Okafor for at least a month,
I think we need a little community Win/Loss prediction chain. I am waiting until Tuesday AM - you know that decision over Landry or Aldemir is the difference of...
Okafor was awful in both summer league and pre-season. His value is largely entirely tied into his ability to finish at the rim with his excellent length and touch, but in the pre-season he struggled to create attempts and has instead settled for mid-range shots. Consequently he shot 38.6 FG% (22/57) and drew a mere 9 FTA. He also had a terrible 4 assists vs 18 turnovers, as he did not display passing ability to offset his plummet in scoring efficiency.
Some blame can be placed on Philly’s poor guard play and spacing, and he still can become an efficient offensive weapon if he finds a way to get a higher volume shots at the rim. But thus far he has been a black hole of extreme inefficiency, and efficient scoring was his only real strength entering the draft. This is especially scary considering his poor shooting and lackluster defense, as his offense needs to translate to the NBA exceptionally well for him to have any compelling upside scenario.
I felt I gave Okafor the benefit of the doubt by ranking him 4th in the class, and now that all of his translation flags are glaring it is hard to feel optimistic. How excited would you be if your favorite team drafted a one trick pony who may not be able to translate his one trick to the NBA level?
They need to put in a waiver claim for Ish Smith before the Pelicans or someone else can nab him. they'll also be major idiots to keep Landry or Furk at the expense of Wood.
@ShamsCharania The 76ers are waiving guard Scottie Wilbekin and have informed rookie forward Christian Wood he has made team, league source talks Yahoo
Philly.com also says that J.P. Tokoto will be waived. If these reports true, that means just one more cut to get down to 15. I'm thinking Jordan McRae will be gone.
Even with everyone healthy, those PG's are pretty marginal and could really hurt player development (I won't even talk about W/L, as that is hardly relevant to this type of roster.)
As much as I generally support the radical rebuild, I am critical that this is 2 years in a row that they lack clearly serviceable options at key positions in a way that could harm player development and evaluation.
I'm all for avoiding mediocre vets if they play at the expense of a promising young player. But this team currently lacks any promising young PG's. Given the depth of quality NBA PG's, and how a good PG helps your bigs and shooters develop, I see no excuse for Hinkie entering this season without one.
The only guy who conceivably can fit this description is Marshall. But he is super-slow to start with and is not even fully recovered from an ACL repair.
This very much reminds me of the start of last year, where they entered the season with no NBA caliber shooters or PG. The first 15+ games was a throw away (look how bad Nerlens looked to start) and they were lucky Covington proved to be NBA ready once acquired. Similarly, Ish performed reasonably well after MCW was traded... but I doubt they get that from Canaan and McConnell, and Marshall is an open question.
"Given the depth of quality NBA PG's, and how a good PG helps your bigs and shooters develop, I see no excuse for Hinkie entering this season without one."
I see a likely excuse. That veteran PG will cost money and probably carries a multi-year contract. He could have acquired Ty Lawson for a couple of future picks this summer but obviously Hinkie's idea of "building for the future" does not include spending any money or reducing future cap space to improve the play on the court currently.
What have you seen in the last two years of Hinkie's reign that makes you surprised that he's entering this season with the roster he has? If you just look at what Hinkie has done so far, you should be resigned to the fact that he doesn't care much about winning more now and stop complaining that he's not doing the things that a normal GM with normal expectations would do.
If the young players with elite potential are less developed in a couple of years than they might have been with a veteran quality point guard, so be it. That probably will be the new owner and GM's problem.
that's intentional though. they want to start out in a hole so that if Noel and Okafor get better as the year goes on (which I would assume is the goal), any wins that come about because of their improvement don't jeopardize their shot of a top 3 pick. seems they've done a pretty good job of that. i'd be shocked if they get to 5 wins before New Year's
"that's intentional though. they want to start out in a hole so that if Noel and Okafor get better as the year goes on (which I would assume is the goal), any wins that come about because of their improvement don't jeopardize their shot of a top 3 pick."
At this point, I don't think they're all that worried about the ranking on their highest pick. Given the quality of the team, it would have to be pretty high anyway.
I think the primary strategy is saving cap space and goodies for a future owner. Right now they have no significant veteran contracts that cut flexibility and Noel is the only rookie contract coming due within the next few years. Add the stockpiling of future picks (at least two of the four that may come this year will likely be kicked down the road) and this team has lots of attractive features for an ownership group that would actually be serious about building a team. Harris & company will expect to be paid for those features.
it looks we get all those picks,.. i can't see the Lake being top 3... odds are Sixer get their own 1-3 and the Lakers maybe a late lottery, hopefully top 10 .. ill be watching a lot of LSU this year, Ben Simmons is the guy i want.
Opener. Boston Celtics. All players on roster but Landry 24 and under. 0-0 unmarred record. "Star" and head coach from region; Xtra adrenaline performances, which could be good or bad. Okafor's 1st; have oxygen tank handy. Canaan could go off for 43, Hollis 32. Televised. All I got.
Noel and Okafor worth the price of admission this season.. Lakers must be kicking themselves... okafor looked great scoring, a lot of bad turnovers , it looks like he fixed his FT%... good times ahead.
Loved what I saw out of Okafor and Noel. But good lord the point guard play...embarrassing does not accurately describe it. I think we got our first assist by a guard halfway through the 3rd Q. Inexcusable.
oh dear lord, the guard play was horrific. I've never seen so many wasted possessions in an NBA game.
back to the ongoing argument of Sixers vs Celtics..... I would much rather be a Sixers fan than a celtics fan. the celtics team represents everything i do not want in a rebuild.... they are going nowhere. Smart will end up being a good player, but other than that they have a bunch of middling NBA misfits that on a good day win 44 games. is the idea they are supposed to get a superstar free agent?
lol really ? everyone one on here complains when the sixers only have a 'top 5' ... now its a great thing ? okafor and noel are each better than any 'asset' the celts have... and frankly so are Saric and Embiid... this years draft is a 2 player draft... Simmons and Labissiere ...
Saric is an absentee tweener who is below average athletically, defensively, shooting-wise, and jumps off the screen as much for his turnovers as for his slick passing. Embiid combines the durability of Oden with the character of Bynum.
The Celtics are a young playoff team with a solid roster framework, probably the best young coach in the game, and every good player is under 26 except Amir Johnson, who is 28. They're infinitely more likely to lure key free agents than Philly and will have as many as 8 picks in the upcoming draft (4 in the first round, headlined by the BK crown jewel as stated above by mpads).
Now I agree that Okafor looked very good in his pro debut but he came at the price of sucking for two years and the best picks the Sixers have coming up are their own (+ the LA pick), similarly bought for the price of being unwatchable for 3+ years. They could even do this for the next 10 years if you like and get some more guys like Noel and Okafor! I don't know if that's your thing, but I'm not really into it.
"this years draft is a 2 player draft"
I'm not sure how you can say that when the NCAA season hasn't even started yet and the draft class is shaping up to be a very solid one by most accounts (Simmons, Ingram, Murray, Bender, Labissiere, Brown, etc.), but if that's true, it hurts Philly more than Boston because the Sixers need to hit on multiple picks to make up lost ground.
I've had this Sixers plan vs. Celtics plan discussion in the past with The Six, and it really comes down to a value debate. The amount of future assets are comparable between the two teams, but the Celtics are competetive now and will continue to be in the near future, which is something I value. I'm 24 and I'll be an old man before the Sixers are competitive at the rate Hinkie is going.
Buke said it best a while ago - there are fans who enjoy watching games and there are fans who enjoy fantasizing about draft picks. Put me down for the former, put a large segment of Sixer fans down for the latter, and put Celtics fans down as having the luxury of doing both.
Agree with your assessment of the Celtics vs. the Sixers. Okafor may have more star quality than any single player they have on their roster, but they have a roster full of players who contribute and I would say that's more fun to watch than two potential young stars surrounded by an indifferently designed roster.
The Sixers may well be a better team in four years, but that will take either a complete reversal of goals by current management or the sale of the team to an ownership that cares about pleasing the fans by making this team relevant (in a good way) again.
Here is a good luck scenario for 2 years from now...
1. Embiid fully recovers the way that big Z did after his bone graft as is an impact 20-25 min game center.
2.Okafor and Noel develop to reach the reasonable ceilings at age 23 and 21.
3. After a few years of bad luck in terms of lottery and pick, the Sixers get fairly lucky this year- getting top 2 with their own pick and top 5 with LA. After 2 years, both of those players are heading to be very good pros (say one in the Noel/Jah range and the other a bit better.) One is a PG, the other a wing.
4. Covington is 27 and entering the last year of his 1M contract.
So that means completely ignoring the cap space, pick swaps, current other players, Saric, Miami, OKC and 2017 Sixer first round picks... In 2 years you still have:
PG: Top 5 pick entering second season
SG: Top 2 pick entering second season
SF: Covington age 26 a 1M/year
F: Noel entering 4th season (age 23)
C: Okafor entering 3rd season (age 21)
Bench: Embiid entering 2nd season (age 23)
I'd say that is a very watchable and compelling roster- especially given all of the other potential pieces you put around that with cap space and their other picks/players depending on how people develop.
first off, thanks for the tank link ! it will be great to follow for the season...
never posted on LB, but i am certainly in the camp of not caring about 48 wins in the East.
on Saric, ill go with what I've seen in his play, and the fact that NBA GMs believe he is the best non-NBA professional player in the world. that says a lot considering how significant world competition has become in the last 10 years. so would i trade him for Smart or the C's #1 pick this year? no way. nor would I do so with embiid. therefore IMO, the sixers have 4 assets better than anything boston has.
i agree the C's are a deep team with a great coach. and its easy to say a team isn't good enough to be a championship team until they win one, ala Detroit..... that said, i think what the Sixers have is too heavily discounted here. I don't often hear doctors say a player should "have a full recovery"... that never happened with the comps of Oden and Big Z... thats the case here.. and big Z had zero athleticism and more awkward body... so i am not going to say Emiids 'good luck' case is 25 mins a game [referring to a another post]....its just not factual.
its a 2player draft (yes its early) because there are 2 athletic 7 footers that run the floor & handle the ball and one plays 5 positions. but yes, my fingers are cross that sixers finally get #1...
one of the knocks on okafor was he would be 55% FT shooter. well, he clearly isn't that. he worked hard enough to somehow become at least a serviceable FT shooter , and that says a lot. i think the TOs will come down as he gains experience and awareness. this guys might be very special...
frankly, with a serviceable PG, the Sixers could have won last night. with all the depth of Boston, they didnt look so great. Noel and Okafor are inefficient because they are the only options and never get set up in good position.
Just to clarify the medical situation for Embiid and his possible outcomes:
1. I was fairly critical of the Sixers drafting Embiid based on the fact that he is a 7 footer who had 2 different stress fractures in 6 months before the draft. I was concerned he may just be susceptible and lack durability.
2. But in regards specifically to the navicular fracture- even after 2 procedures there is no reason to think that he will be hobbled or sapped of his athleticism. The bone will either heal or it won't. Then it will either stay intact or re-fracture (which is why I talked of "luck.")
Guys who play for months on a fractured foot (like Andrew Toney or Big Z before his surgery) are permanently damaged. But guys who get the fracture fixed promptly (like Michael Jordan at age 22) do not suffer a loss of athleticism any more than any other broken bone. This is not like a guy with an arthritic condition like Oden or Bynum.
3. Embiid will lose at least 2.5 years of key development time, which likely affects his ceiling. And if he heals, I expect minute limits the first 2 years and lots of serial MRI exams to ensure the bone continues to mineralize (which takes several years after this type of repair.)
So that is the medical reasoning behind my Embiid "luck" statement. They will be lucky if he heals and gets to play (and does not re-fracture.) But if he heals, then there is no reason to expect he will be some hobled shell of his former self. No more than MJ at 24 was a worse athlete then before his navicular fracture. And after 2 years healthy, I'd expect he would be reasonably out of the woods in terms of minute restrictions.
In terms of putting a percentage chance on "getting good luck with Embiid"- that is challenging. My spitball educated guess is he has about a 67% chance of "healing" to where he plays again. Then maybe a 50% chance he does not re-fracture in those first few years. After that, he's probably as risky as any 7 footer. So that would be a cumulative 33% chance of a good outcome, and maybe drop that to 25% given other injuries can happen even if the foot heals. So a 1 in 4 chance of getting a favorable "lucky" outcome with Embiid.
And FWIW, at the time of the draft that number was closer to 70% given that most initial Navicular repairs on clean breaks are successful (85% initial success and then risk of reinjury.) That was a calculated risk I would be wary of- and I was at the time, but not a crazy risk given the potential reward in relation to the other guys on the board at #3.
NB- this info is to the best of my knowledge. I'm sure someone with greater expertise in the field could provide better estimates. My main point is that there is a chance that Embiid plays and retains his athleticism... but after the first failed repair the chance is now significantly less than 50%... thus requiring luck on the Sixers part.
i still believe Embiid has a legitimate chance at reaching a super high ceiling,..... lets remember , when Wiggins was valued as the next 'chosen one' , pre-injury Embiid was likely getting picked ahead of him.... the next Olajuwon is still out there - i will keep using this comparison so i can link these posts in a year and claim my prize...
I'm more or less with Brian here. I don't believe these guys (Hinkie and Harris that is) want 1) to use all of the first rounders they have or 2) wish to accelerate significant winning improvements in this team. I'm taking an investment pricing perspective here where investments are valued more on future benefits than current results. The more draft picks they use and any valuable free agents they may sign, reduce the draft picks and cap space for a future owner and accelerate the time when bills come due. I expect them to boot at least two of these first rounders into the future if they end up getting four.
If the two young big men continue to develop as expected, they don't really need Embiid. I fully expect to see them try to trade Embiid for some mid-level or lower level first rounder if he recovers and demonstrates that he is serviceable.
I think the ideal situation for selling this team in two years would be if the team had four or five good young players in place, was approaching 40 wins, had two or three extra future first rounders coming, and still had plenty of cap space. That would lead a prospective buyer to believe that the best is yet to come.
There is no way to argue the owners motivations- as it is unknowable. People sad the same things about Lurie when he bought the Eagles. Ultimately, I'm not sure it matters. If Harris sells the team in a few years and it is more valuable because it has marketable young stars, now bad contracts and lots of future picks... then that is not exactly a bad thing.
Basically, we used to have corporate owners who wanted cheap programming for CSN and were afraid to ever rebuild because it would hurt ratings and gate receipts for 2-3 years and a corporate owner won't take that hit. Sure they wanted a star, but the AI trade proved they were unwilling to face the pain of rebuilding to get a good chance at one.
Now they have owers that are willing to get killed at the gate and in ratings for multiple years for the chance to greatly increase the value of the team... which translates into having a marketable star as opposed to a mediocre 40 win team. Whether they want this in order to build a winner or build market value for a sale- either way it is good long term.
"Now they have owers that are willing to get killed at the gate and in ratings for multiple years for the chance to greatly increase the value of the team... which translates into having a marketable star as opposed to a mediocre 40 win team. Whether they want this in order to build a winner or build market value for a sale- either way it is good long term."
I agree that in the long term it doesn't matter whether this ownership or some other ownership has a winning team. My only point is that accelerating the chance of winning may diminish the sale value of this team because it may reduce the potential of future benefits to a new owner. Buyers don't get the benefits of past results. They get the benefits or detriments of the future. That is why I don't expect current ownership to win very much before they sell this team.
If one bought the Detroit Pistons at the end of the 2005 season, they would be buying the best team in the eastern conference but it was a team on the verge of decline and almost all those benefits were already realized by the selling owners. A young 40 win team on the rise with lots of cap space, no constraining contracts, and entitled to multiple future picks is a much better investment.
"...i am certainly in the camp of not caring about 48 wins in the East."
A bifurcation like that always ends up in a false binary. There are other choices besides 'Hinkie Process' and 'Perennial 8th seed'. This regime has taken the Build through the Draft mantra to its logical extreme, which I don't really have a problem with, but they've made enough errors to set the timeline back much further than what should be acceptable in my opinion.
"on Saric, ill go with what I've seen in his play, and the fact that NBA GMs believe he is the best non-NBA professional player in the world."
He was also recently ranked the 41st best player in Euroleague.
I don't think he's a better or more accomplished player than Mirotic was at that age for example, and I think he'll be more flashy but less useful in the NBA than Mirotic and even Bjelica, but we'll see.
"one of the knocks on okafor was he would be 55% FT shooter. well, he clearly isn't that. he worked hard enough to somehow become at least a serviceable FT shooter"
6 FTA sample size...but I hope you're right.
"its a 2player draft (yes its early) because there are 2 athletic 7 footers that run the floor & handle the ball"
Jah has hit 14 of 15 FT if you include preseason- so very promising.
As for the rebuild- no doubt there are lots of ways to rebuild. But you also have to look at your starting point. For whatever reason, BK was willing to give up 3 years worth of unrestricted Nets #1 draft picks for a 37 year old KG, and other teams gave up assets for Pierce and Doc Rivers. The Celtics also entered the rebuild with their future #1 picks in place. While the Sixers started out with Jrue, Thad, ET and Hawes as their assets and were 2 #1 picks in the hole after the Bynum and Moultrie trades.
So I don't think the Sixers were in the position to stay competitive and acquire quality future assets. The Celtics basically have a 3 year pass to be as good as they can be and still get lottery picks from BK (the Nets.) The Sixers might end up in the similar situation if the Kings self destruct to where the Sixers get multiple lottery picks from the Kings over the next 4 years.
From what I understand these rankings are a projection for the upcoming season, so beating his projected rank by 30 spots is possible but not very likely. He could just as easily slide.
i hear you on the 48 wins, it was kind of a flippant comment. but thats how i view most of these East teams with no star. like i said, i was wrong on the pistons - they won it all...
thank you for another great link i have never seen !
i took a closer look, keep in mind its a euroleague fanboy ranking that takes into account 'team worth' as one of the inputs. jan vesley is #5 and rudy fernandez #6 (is he 40 ? )... ill go with the GMs who run NBA teams.... its not exactly DraftExpress type analysis.
on Okafors FTs,,, yes , small sample, but apparently he was 14-15 in last preseason games (dont have the exact data but seems like something a 55% shooter would never be able to do)
i want to draft ben simmons, a can't miss NBA star. he plays 5 positions but will make a nice 3.
DX is essentially "fanboy" rankings too. Most "professional" college & HS scouting is (unless you're employed by a pro team). It's a website that may get a lot of hits but their scouts are just some dudes who watch a lot of basketball and nerd out to standing reach measurements. It's not like there's some formal training or license or certification in "basketball scouting".
Saric being drastically outranked by a bunch of NBA flameouts like Vesely and Rudy Fernandez doesn't bode well under any circumstances in my opinion, even with age being accounted for (like Steve mentions, Niko Mirotic was top 10 roughly at the same age at which Saric is projected to be 41st, and of course Mirotic was also a late pick by a team who could afford to stash and didn't need that pick on the floor pronto).
But my point was more in response to your claim that he's the best non-NBA player in the world, not that you should drop him from 1 to 41. I think both rankings are extremely subjective and hold little predictive value, since they're all over the place. I guess if you want a more objective, quant-based take, Pelton did a regression for per-minute stats translating from Euroleague to the NBA for currently stashed players and Saric ranked 22nd, behind guys like Petteri Koponen and Kazemi even.
**DX is essentially "fanboy" rankings too. Most "professional" college & HS scouting is (unless you're employed by a pro team). It's a website that may get a lot of hits but their scouts are just some dudes who watch a lot of basketball and nerd out to standing reach measurements. It's not like there's some formal training or license or certification in "basketball scouting".**
This is what I don't get. You knock DraftXpress and call them fanboys, rendering their analysis meaningless, yet when a poll of NBA GENERAL MANAGERS rank Saric as the best player not currently in the NBA, you still don't accept it??? Why is that?
Don't NBA GM's fit your criteria of having "formal training or license or certification in basketball scouting"???
Again, I have no idea if Saric is going to be an awesome NBA player or not. Maybe he will, maybe he won't. We both are using the info that's out there to fit our arguments. I'm choosing to take the word of NBA GM's in this case.
FWIW, I don't dispute the 41st best Euroleague ranking at all. Those rankings aren't based on his NBA future as far as I can tell. Euro leagues are notorious for not valuing young players as much as they do "crafty" vets. Playing time reflects that. If you look at the Euroleague first and second teams last year, every single player is a "crafty vet". Everyone on the first and second team is over 26 years old (other than Devin Smith)
thanks for chiming in. draft express is widely considered the best source of data and scouting for the NBA draft. i certainly don't consider them fanboys, but rather legitimate scouts.. spend 5 minutes on the site, the analysis and data is impressive- these guys have access to all the players (interviews etc), put together their own scout videos, etc. to compare them to that Eurosite, at least from what i see isn't apples to apples.
More importantly, as you noted, the criteria used on the Eurosite has nothing to do with NBA viability . and the criteria they use to rank, i.e. 'team worth', 'players role' are not really relevant IMO . i highlighted top 10s fernandez and vesley to discount their ranking system, whereas anomiemnemonical sees that ranking as justification for discounting Saric...
as we have all said, all this is subjective, but ill go with the actual stakehholders- NBA GMs.
Right now their future hinges on what draft pick Brooklyn gives them. In the last 3 drafts they've taken Terry Rozier, Marcus Smart, James Young, RJ Hunter, and Kelly Olynyk.
They only made the playoffs last year because they were in a weak conference in which both Miami and Indiana were going through injury issues. Put them in a playoff series against Utah, Phoenix, or Toronto and they'd be lucky to win 2 games.
I just don't understand the praise they're getting. Last year they had the 16th pick in the draft and they couldn't do anything to move up 6 spots to draft Justice Winslow. No notable free agent is going to sign there either.
There is nothing special about them. It's a team loaded full of sixth men and little more. The Brooklyn picks are nice, but not better than what the Sixers have draft-wise.
In reality, Boston is taking a different path than the Sixers. Only time will tell who will be more successful. But there is no reason to conclude that because Boston can accumulate more short-term wins, that their "plan" is any better, or that they are "building something". We all know it will come down to obtaining a star player (through draft, FA, or trade). Boston swung and missed with their garbage mid-round picks on draft day last year. Nobody wanted any part of them. Even throwing in a Brooklyn pick got them nowhere. Then they swung and missed with Kevin Love. So their path is just as unclear at this point.
Hypothetical: If you are Indiana, and you realize that you need to trade Paul George. Whose assets would you covet more, Boston's or Philly's? For me, it's the Sixers, which is why I like this plan better. Although it is admittedly very painful to go through as a fan.
Very good point. If a team is forced to trade away a star (like Minny and Kevin Love last year), then I'd expect any smart GM would take a selection of the Sixers assets over what Boston has to offer.
Would you take Noel + this year's Sixer #1 + Lakers #1
or would you take Smart + 2 Nets picks? How interested would you be as an opposing GM to acquire Sullinger or Olynk or Isiah?
I guess a GM like BK takes the middling 24-27 year olds to avoid bottoming out as when BK chose to get Miller, Smith and lesser picks in the AI trade. But I would think most GM's would prefer higher upside assets over a collection of nice role players.
I hate the Celtics and Danny Ainge, so I begrudgingly give them this: the Celtics somehow are putting out a competitive team AND getting good draft picks, as opposed to tanking for three or four years.
Right now I agree with you that I would not switch with them, but I am trying to wash out the residual taste in my mouth from watching so many bad games.
Let's start with Okafor. If you watched him play last night and didn't get excited thinking about his future then you're dead inside. He's 19-years old. Think on that for a minute. 3-years from now after having a few years of NBA experience and the requisite size/strength increases, he's gonna be a monstrosity. The footwork, hands and smarts were readily visible in the game, and his 6-6 from the line was a huge plus. Even picturing him a few months down the line is exciting as he adjusts to the nightly grind.
He's clearly not ready, fitness-wise, for the NBA. That's not a knock on him either. No 19-year old big man is ever ready for the speed and constant motion necessary. That said, he played 35+ mins last night and although he looked a bit sluggish in the middle quarters, really played well in the first/fourth.
Nerlens was really good too. He's such a menace on the floor defensively and now is looking so much more comfortable on the offensive end. Even Heinsohn was impressed with him last night, lol.
The guards, however, were a disaster. Canaan hit a few threes but no one could set up the offense, often dumping the ball into the post with
Sixers continue to get no respect from the refs (they don't really deserve it, haha) as Jah, Nerlens and co. got mugged repeatedly by the C's w/o any whistles. It's to be expected on the road on opening night.
Let's start with Okafor. If you watched him play last night and didn't get excited thinking about his future then you're dead inside. He's 19-years old. Think on that for a minute. 3-years from now after having a few years of NBA experience and the requisite size/strength increases, he's gonna be a monstrosity. The footwork, hands and smarts were readily visible in the game, and his 6-6 from the line was a huge plus. Even picturing him a few months down the line is exciting as he adjusts to the nightly grind.
He's clearly not ready, fitness-wise, for the NBA. That's not a knock on him either. No 19-year old big man is ever ready for the speed and constant motion necessary. That said, he played 35+ mins last night and although he looked a bit sluggish in the middle quarters, really played well in the first/fourth.
Nerlens was really good too. He's such a menace on the floor defensively and now is looking so much more comfortable on the offensive end. Even Heinsohn was impressed with him last night, lol.
The guards, however, were a disaster. Canaan hit a few threes but no one could set up the offense, often dumping the ball into the post with less than 10 secs on the shot clock. I don't know much about Kendall Marshall other than he's a pretty old-school PG, and that type of player will be a welcome addition come late November when he's back on the floor. Will also be nice to see Covington and Stauskas mixed into the rotation and see what their shooting does to this thing.
Sixers continue to get no respect from the refs (they don't really deserve it, haha) as Jah, Nerlens and co. got mugged repeatedly by the C's w/o any whistles. It's to be expected on the road on opening night.
Agree with your assessment. I think Okafor's conditioning would be fair enough for this point of the season if the Sixers had any bench at all and a decent enough back up center (I actually wish they had kept Aldemir as a backup for defense and pick setting). Right now, the team seems to need both Okafor and Noel on the court to be effective and at least one of them on the court at all times to prevent total collapse.
Agree that Canaan is not a point guard but I thought he was a decent contributor last night. He's a better shooter than MCW anyway. McConnell looked really overmatched for much of the game but seemed to improve as the game went on. He might develop into an adequate backup if Marshall can take the starting job.
Obviously Hinkie reserves a certain portion of the roster each year to second rounder and undrafted free agent tryouts. Hasn't Hollis' tryout lasted long enough?
Except Stevens probably would not have taken the job then even if offered. He signed something like a 12 year deal in April of that year. He had a lot of offers, but he didn't leave Butler until three years later.
yes, should be a good test for Okafor. Gobert and Favors might be the best defensive C PF combo in the league, so it'll be interesting to see how he responds. and if he'll get a little more help from the guards tonight.
I thought the first game was very encouraging. I can see how a combination and Okafor and Noel would work with a mix of shooters around them. Canaan was massively better working off the ball. If that is his role, you wonder the overlap between him and Stauskus.
I am really looking forward to watching Okafor and Noel develop chemistry. There is a lot of intelligence and passing ability between the two of them - and its a different element of the game versus the shooting rush around the league
Loved how Okafor handled a real tough defensive matchup tonight. Those two guys are a couple of beasts. Anyone could see that Okafor could/would have some trouble with their length and athleticism, but he adjusted his game and found ways to score. I was most impressed by that series when he went after Gobert on two straight possessions. After watching D'Angelo Russell completely wilt in a match-up with Rubio the other night, it was good to see Okafor not be intimidated. Very impressive for a 19 yr old.
And of course....the PG play. The most embarrassing PG play in Sixers history continues. I seriously can't believe this team is rolling these guys out there. That takes balls.
I've seen some people here suggest the Lakers pick will be in the 10-15 range. Can you explain your reasoning. To me they seem like a sure fire bottom 5 team given they play in the West.
My god...I have watched the first two LAL games. Watched SACTO drop 74 pts by halftime. I had previously thought the Sixers were guaranteed to see that pick convey this year, but not anymore. Now, Russell should improve even though he looks lost out there now. But their defense, especially on the perimeter is abysmal. This is a top 5 lotto team if there ever was one. I believe the pick is unprotected next year, so it's not a tragedy if it does not convey this year, but this Laker team stinks.
My reasoning was that they could've added somebody in free agency. If you look back in the "He'd be a starter if" thread though, nobody really had a problem with the MCW trade in and of itself, the only complaint was that this is taking too long.
Lakers 10-15 ??? who said anything like that ? this laker team is rancid. I would say there is a great chance they are top 3, may even push the sixers for the worst record. Speaking of this , who are the teams that can possibly be bottom 3 ... to me, its the Sixers, Nets, and Lakers with the Sixers having a 5 game cushion... who else is even a possibility ? Indiana? Charlotte?
it worries me a little that Okafor looks like he can't jump. but he can score in so many different ways that it might not matter.
seems like him & Noel could end up being perfect complements to one another. what one does not do well, the other does. vice versa too though... hopefully Okafor learns positioning and how to use his body to rebound the ball and defend better... and hopefully Noel learns how to control his movements and dribble the basketball.
No Mayo, MCW, or Henson for Milwaukee tonight; no Covington for Philly.
Cooney reporting the Sixers will add Phil Pressey with their roster exemption, which is probably why they kept Landry over Aldemir - to qualify for a 16th roster spot.
Pressey is a good pickup. Unfortunately, he can't shoot either. As impressive as McConnell has been for an undrafted rookie point guard, he does need to start taking (and making) some outside shots just to force opponents to guard him.
I usually loathe the classic "scrappy" point guard type players like McConnell, but damn I really like his game so far. I watched him at AZ a fair bit over the past few seasons with the other NBA prospects they had (Aaron Gordon, Hollis-Jefferson, Stanley Johnson) and he definitely can "run" a team. I'm thrilled to see that he can do so on the NBA level.
It was really nice seeing him knock down a 3 last night, and I was pleasantly surprised to see him take it to the rack a few times.
Defensively is where the issues are. He's just not big enough to defend some of the PG's in the league. He had to guard Middleton a few times last night and it was ugly just based on size alone.
It's crazy how bad this team misses Covington when he's out. Hell, they didn't win last year until after they signed him right? His size and floor-spacing are tough to replace, especially with Jah and Nerlens in the middle.
So the Nets traded away their 2014, 2016 and 2018 1st's as well as the right for Boston to take the Nets 2017 1st in a pick swap.
The oe put the team in line to make a 90M lux tax payment, and the team went on to lose 5 more games than the prior year (44) and then only 38 games the next year.
KG eventually netted them Thad. Pierce was lost 1 year late in FA.
"Honestly, did I think we could pull something like this off? No"
From the article:
"Garnett is 37 years old, while Pierce is 35. Critics wonder if both players will be able to stay healthy and productive throughout the course of a long season at their advanced ages."
"I hope people keep questioning KG and Paul Pierce's age, because I know that the type of warriors they are," King said. "The workload will not be as much as it's been in the past because of their teammates but I enjoy the fact that people keep questioning Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce. i know that they'll come out and prove them wrong, so I'm not concerned about that at all."
TJ was really fun to watch against the Bucks. I can't imagine he has a future as a piece given it has been two games, but he does not delay the development of Noel or Okafor. In fact, his particular style is great, in my opinion, for their games.
It sounds like Canaan will be only playing the two guard from now on.
I think if we shrink our rotation, get Stauskus and Covington playing well, then we have a competitive (not good, but competitive) team.
I am actually feeling good about what we could see this year.
I continue to be impressed by Okafor. He's making significant improvement on a game by game basis. Post game, face-up game, FT shooting...he is getting better at everything. The defense took a step back last game, but he has given no reason to think that he won't make the same jumps in progress on that end that he's been making on offense. I could not be happier with him, and he's only 19!
McConnell. I jumped the gun panning McConnell after a sub-par preseason and first game or so in season. Sometimes it's nice to be wrong. He has not only shown a real feel for the position (which I knew he had), but a level of talent to compete at the NBA level. He's managed to stabilize the PG position for this team.
Heh, blogging again could be so much fun. I sure as hell miss it more than anything about this blog. That rush every night, that my boys were gonna play. Can't wait to get home and watch the game. Notations noted. Every. single. night. Good times indeed.
This ragtag bunch they currently trot out in year 3 of this so-called resurgence is really tough to get behind so passionately; cause half or probably more of them won't be here in 3 years if and when it does even start to matter again. I strongly emphasize 'if' in the previous sentence. That's rather ruthless and renegade-like (to be where we actually are in year 3 of this mess) of the head honchos for a fan as old as I am.
I want to feel like I did in '83. Euphoric.
Smitten.
Extraordinary.
Not this mundane, painstakingly and often excruciating display. Seriously.
Speed this shit up, whatever it is that you're ultimately doing. Here's to looking at you Sam.
Shouldn't be too hard to figure out. He was playing without Noel and against good big men who forced him further outside and away from his comfort zone. I was impressed that he racked up all those rebounds at least. He hadn't been much of a rebounder to date but this game shows he can actively go after the boards when he has to.
FTs: Preseason he was 8-9
Over the first four Reg. Season games, he was 13-16 (81%)
Since then he is 11-21 (52%)
Total for regular season 62%
Yes, he is regressing.
“The reality of it is we’ve had a lot of practice at [losing] the last couple of years. So, I think when you anticipate possibilities that we’re going through, we have a thing we call a premortem. If we’re going to die, how’s it going to be? We talk freely about it and what comes up in times like these is stay together and be clear about our purpose and the compass for this year’s team. It’s always the same old, same old.”
I have never heard such resignation to losing by any sports team in my life. It is unbelievable, even by the Sixers already very low standards.
yea, it's definitely unusual. but to be honest i'd rather read something like that than negativity. everyone knew what this season would be like so as a coaching staff you might as well be open about it with your players. i think that makes for a better environment over the long haul because otherwise it could get really toxic.
and whether or not he's a good coach is pretty hard to tell even in the 3rd year, but goddamn did they pick the perfect guy to handle this. he's unbelievable with the media. i don't know how he stays so positive.
To me, his comments seem to carry an aggravated tone this year. Much more than in years past. No need to explain why that is the case.
Think about Brown last night, staring at Fred Hoiberg who takes over a solid Bulls roster. Brown has nothing to show from his 2+ years. He knows what he signed up for, but he is human and I am sure can only sustain so much.
I don't like the comments at this point in the rebuild.
Except I don't think this is what Brett Brown "actually" signed up for. I don't think for one second that his initial discussions with management revolved around, we're still going to be tanking our ass off and not even have 3/5ths of a core/starting unit assembled in year 3. In 3 years of drafting and opportunities to accumulate players and build a team, the guy on a good day has probably 2 starters - in YEAR 3!
He keeps getting asked to coach up player after player that doesn't stand a chance of not only being in the league but doesn't even remain with the Sixers more than a year. Just go back and review how many players he's been asked to devote time to that were jettisoned off, and came in with the slimmest of chances to begin with. His time and effort is too valuable to be wasted time and again like they've done him.
Here's a scrub Brett, coach him up and develop him. Oops, nevermind we're going to cut him. Here's two more scrubs Brett, develop them. Whoops, we're gonna let them go too. And over and over. That's the low of the lows from a coaching standpoint. It's such a waste - all in the name to find this diamond of a player who will likely ultimately end up your 11th or 12th guy on your best days.
I detect a fed up tone from him more this year too. I don't remember exactly but didn't he allude to some frustrations last year just a tad too by mentioning something about not having his high draft pick (Embiid) for the second year in a row? Seem to recall he made a slightly frustrated comment in regards to this I think.
And how could you not like the comments? It's about damn time somebody started calling it like it is instead of all this sunshine-y bullshit Hinkie gets in front of the mic and spews; all that talking in circles he's so adept at. I'm glad Brett is starting to show signs of pulling the curtain back - no matter how abominable and blameworthy the scene may be. Kudos to him. I'd love to see him cut it loose more with the verbal jabs as the season continues to spiral downward.
I don't think I see eye to eye with most of your points - but I agree with everything you wrote. It is a damn shame because I couldn't even tell you how Brown is as a coach. Excuses of injuries and talent explain poor results - one month of good defense is supposed to signal potential...its all nonsense. To be honest, I think the guy almost deserves to have 2 years with a decent roster after the shit he has gone through....but you can see the contradiction there.
Anyway - I understand the injuries but don't really care. I just want to see some damn wins with a respectable rotation.
----
Yesterday I asked both Brandon Roy and Nate McMillan about the Sixers. McMillan said: "There’s a lot of talent there. I haven’t really watched them a lot except for the last couple of days. They have been a team that we’ve had some problems with their speed and athleticism. I don’t know exactly what’s going on, but it’s a talented team."
Roy said: "They have good players. I was surprised by their record. I don’t even look at them, like, I don’t approach this game looking at their record, I approach it as, ‘Look, this team is good and they have talented players.'"
This morning at shootaround I asked Jordan if he agreed with Roy -- it seemed like a pretty innocent question -- that the Sixers are more talented than their record. Jordan said, "That's his opinion." And said nothing more.
Sounds like Karl is on his way out in Sac. If they fall in top 10 they keep their pick, correct? What happens to our pick swap rights if their pick ends up going to Chicago?
Pick swaps are only the 1st 2 years. If the pick goes to Chicago then no pick swap (not that they would be swapping with a pick outside of the top 10 anyway.) Kings probably figure they will be good enough that the pick swap does not come into play either of the years... but we'll see.
Amazing thing about the Sac trade is the Sixers have the right to swap picks with the Kings in the upcoming draft (if pick is in the top 10) AND they can do the same thing in the FOLLOWING draft!!
On top of that, they get ANOTHER first round pick from the Kings in 2018 (top 10 protected I think) but if it doesn't convey in '18 the Sixers get the pick in 2019 totally unprotected.
Plus they got Stauskas and Carl Landry. I don't know what on earth Divac was doing
Yes, this trade was a total win for the Sixers, even if Stauskas is a bum (which it looks like he will be--a 3 point shooter who can't make 3 point shots). The picks swaps by themselves are worth it. The Sixers likely need to take on salaries to get over the cap floor anyway. I guess Divac needed cap space with a win-now owner.
Yeah I don't know what to make of Stauskas to this point. He has not been able to make 3's with any consistency even though he's gotten his share of open looks.
On the flip side, I've been impressed/surprised by his ability to get to the rim so far. If he can get his 3's to start falling, it'll be huge for him, as it'll open up the driving lanes for himself and everyone else.
Without Stauskas making 3's and with Covington out and still on the mend it's been really ugly out there.
IIRC, Stauskas started off this summer for Canada shooting really poorly and then suddenly it clicked for him and his shot started falling. He needs that to happen and soon...
So back to our Philly/Boston asset debate, but let's throw in Cousins since we have a potential scenario where if SAC had to deal him, Sixers and BOS would be among the first teams they would call:
1) Would you want Cousins?
2) What would you offer?
3) Cam BOS make a better offer without including all the BKN picks?
I love his game but his attitude/personality can be a bit scary. In the end I would seriously consider this, and most likely make an offer of Okafor, lakers pick, Miami pick, maybe something else(OKC pick). I would not include Noel in this package over Okafor.
interesting question. i dont want anything to do with Cousins because he is a low-character guy. not worth it. but take that away and id probably give okafor and 1 of the later picks, probably both.
I would consider Okafor for Cousins straight up but def not include the Lakers pick too. Cousins has a higher ceiling talent wise but being a good teammate who guys want to play with is important prob more so in bball than any other sport. Okafor seems like a good dude so far.
Not ready to write off Cousins yet because he was drafted into one of the worst situations in sports, but at some point he has to take some accountability
had the pleasure of watching Ben Simmons and can confirm he is a can't-miss prospect. Jamal Murray is also the real deal... i have an eye for prospects. was right about russell, Prozingis and evan turner to name a few.
Sixers get both of these guys along with Embiid and Saric next year and the hankie haters will crawl back into their holes.
I don't doubt your scouting props, but how can you say that you were right or wrong about Porzingis & Russel already, when they are only 9 or 10 games into their NBA career?
Also, many commenters on this website probably fit into your definition of a Hinkie hater, mainly because we disagree with the execution and duration of this rebuild. Not sure I understand your "crawling back into their hole" comment, when you have have had many good back and forth discussions about Hinkie's plan on this website.
lol. bad choice of words, got a bit carried away with over-competitive spirit and grandiosity, hope it does not offend.. but lets face it, civil as it may be, the fan base is split and there is no middle of the road... so we are eventually going to come to a point where one of us will be able to say 'told you so'. tired of being a team that fights over signing guys like mark blount, just tired.... nothing less than a brass ring for me.
I guess when it comes to prospecting, i don't get caught up with all the analysis and do believe I can just watch them play. i am pretty good with assessing yay or nay. not interested in the in-between. if a guy can't have his way not he college level, he won't have in impact in the NBA(this doesn't mean the opposite is true) Russell couldn't, and thats why you see a guy now who looks like a D-leaguer. of course this may change, but chauncey billups is the only guy I've ever seen may a stark turn around. Prozingis is clearly an impact player... how large of a sample do you need to see impact? this isn't potential anymore. he is the best player on the knicks.
I don't think its split right down the middle. I actually think the commenters here are the closest thing to a "middle ground".
I find people evaluate the moves fairly and, in the end, its subjective. I consider myself more supportive than average (on this website) but I am also really really disappointed with how the season is going.
I'm with ya man, all these hankie haters can STFU & GTFO. Most of em have no idea about asset collection. SMH. I too am passionately Pro-Hinkie, Pro-Process, and Prozingis. Let's partner up & identify all anti-Process insurgents on this site. If you see a suspicious post just reply #EXPOSED and I'll add em to the list.
Lol imagine them bein all mad once we get Bill Simmons and Dragon Binder.
yep you got it anominencial !
better to hate hinkie so much and root against what we do have! cut my nose to spite my face. Embiid, yep he's just a project anyway. most dominant college player in a decade? nope, he's just a regular guy that we can cross our fingers and hope he can play at the NBA level. but, eric snow, yeah he was a real piece, a true court general.
Here’s my concern with this tank job: the fans will have to go through all of this losing, and watching of dreadful basketball, then a few of Hinkie’s picks work out and a few won’t, then the Sixers end up being a 47 win team and 4th seed as their ceiling, then we’re right back to where we started in the Iguodala era.
I see that as a very plausible scenario. Embiid will never be fully healthy; Saric got his minutes reduced in friggin’ Europe; Stauskas is a bum; Noel and Jalil are one way players; we’re not guaranteed the Lakers pick this year (Lakers currently 4th to last, one-half game ahead of Pelicans and Nets for 3rd to last). Hinkie’s drafting has been hit or miss.
Hinkie has set up a scenario where only the NBA finals in three years is an acceptable result. Anything less, and none of this was worth it.
@SharoneWright.
i agree that is a plausible scenario along with 47 wins. and if that plays out, we are in the same place we started with the Iguodala teams. you realize that you describe a pretty negative outcome across the board and still come to a place of 47 wins?
the difference with this team is that there is a lot of upside. on your player outlooks, as Eddie Jordan said, thats your opinion...
i see Embiid as coming back 100% and becoming meeting his star player Olajuown-like expectations. Saric being the best non-NBA pro in the World. Stauskas fitting in nicely in a more limited role. Jahil and Noel both have major roles on a championship team.... and Jahil can possibly get moved as he is showing significant value. the draft picks may not fall optimally but there is a good chance we get both and that lines up for drafting Simmons with the 1 or 2 pick and Jamal Murray with the #4or5. before you know it we have the most exciting team in the NBA
Sharone, I share some of your frustrations, but Saric getting his "minutes reduced in friggin Europe" is not one of them.
He's clearly playing for an old school coach who has a real problem with younger players getting minutes. He's currently 6th on the team in minutes behind a bunch of 26-29 year old players. At 21 years old, his Per/36 #'s lead the team in Pts (17.8) and Rebounds (10.6) while shooting 52% from the field and 46% from three point range. (small sample size, i know).
There are some concerns for sure, but I for one am pretty excited to see Saric when he comes over the summer.
In seriousness, it is disrespectful to the fans for Hinkie to remain silent so long. I know, I know, it provides no competitive advantage for him to speak--it is not going to get us a win or improve our draft picks--but for cripes sake, this losing streak is abnormally bad. This year has been a step back by any measure. Give us something. Hand trucking Brett Brown out every game to describe this mess is so tiring.
A great half wasted. Have up 35 in the 3rd after only giving up 32 in the entire first half. And then they started the inadvisable intentional fouling despite having a 10 point lead.
Hinkie has the right idea in terms of rebuilding through amassing multiple high picks in a short time period. Unfortunately, he is too much of a zealot for his own good, and refusing to address how players don't develop when the roster is so devoid of skill and experience to where you can no longer execute. His roster is hurting Noel and Jah, and making it more likely they will not be part of the solution.
We also haven't come away with the best player in any of his drafts. Looks like Towns and Porzingis are going to be a lot better than Okafor. Getting to the point where if he doesn't get Simmons in 2016 it might be time to abandon ship
the challenge with the 76ers strategy, is you have to get the draft right... you have to pull the trigger on the right guy when he presents himself even the information is imperfect. ..as hard is that is, isn't that the entire point? to get the next franchise player? Hinkie has done a good job so far, but we messed up not drafting Porzingis.. 15 games blah blah .. the guy is a star... now... and its obvious.
Okafor is a nice player and will have a successful career, but its clear he has some limitations.
i dont understand why year after year I am able to call boom/bust players with essentially 100% accuracy, but the so called 'experts' continuously miss the mark. I called my friend on draft day with all the knicks idiot fans booing and told him I wish the Sixers took Porzingis and they got a star. what more do you want?
i think with this last draft he had to have been aware of how much shit he would have taken if he took Porzingis. not sure it played into the decision to take Okafor, but you know it would have been really bad at the time
This team obviously is low on talent, but when there is a chance to coach out a win, Brown is just as deficient. Both of the last two games were winnable. Brown has done nothing to help the cause in either one.
And I'm getting a little sick of his snarky comments about how tough his life is coaching this team. Nobody was looking to hire Brown before the Sixers came along. Nobody. Shut up and coach.
+1. The 'woe is me' post game routine gets a little played out when the coaching has been just as poor as the talent on the floor. And not just these last two games, they've been in several more over this 0-15 stretch, but the only effective adjustments (particularly at halftime) have come from the opposing coaches.
The lineups have been puzzling - forcing the Grant/Noel/Okafor frontcourt for long stretches in close games despite the output being historically bad, putrid 3rd quarters,and going away from Okafor late in the game when he's the only productive offensive player on the team. I'd have more sympathy for him if the team was overachieving in terms of Pythag. W/L or if he didn't know what he was signing up for when he took the job.
couple things about the postgame comments last night:
1. Noel on being asked why he wasn't in the game during crunch time said, "I don't know, I'm not the coach."
2. and Brett Brown talking about how he doesn't like their offense when they just dump it to Okafor in the post. makes it sound like him not getting the ball is intentional because he prefers more movement? i didn't see postgame so maybe the quotes were different than they sound?
I watched the presser, and my interpretation of your number 2 was more a criticism of the movement of the other players when Jah had the ball. I don't think not getting him the ball was intentional. Just before that he said that at the end of the game "we tried to look for him, and they did a good job of pressuring us."
Brian -
can we get a new thread? maybe something related to the 15 game losing streak, possibly breaking the record, and some of the ire coming out of the NBA community ?
The article doesn't mention the Sixers, but if it did, it would say that something like, "the Sixers are building their team in a manner the exact opposite of small ball."
yea i've thought about this so much. at first i thought maybe they could exploit an inefficiency in the way the rest of the league is trending. but i just don't see any way they can keep Okafor, Embiid, and Noel on the floor at the same time (if Embiid ever even plays). Noel would be fine coming off the bench but if those are 3 foundational pieces it's a problem. Even Okafor & Embiid together would be problematic. if Embiid proves he can play then there will 100% be a trade involving at least one of those 3.
If the goal is to have a dominant "big" team, then it is actually a good thing to have 3 bigs so you can have 2 on the floor all 48 minutes. And of the como's, likely Jah/Noel are the worst current and long term fit. But even that pairing will be a net positive with time and some actual NBA quality teammates on the perimeter. I think we will see that once Grant is benched in favor of Covington.
Don't look now, but the East may be catching up with the west. It is only 15 games in, but the East has a 39-33 edge in interconference games so far this year. This even includes the Sixers at 0-5 and Golden State at 4-0 in these games.
Miami and Indiana have played better than expected. The East's middle class has improved across the board, as there are only two teams more than 2 games below .500. The west has taken a step back, with Houston and the Clippers underperformance being key factors.
The West is still the better conference until proven otherwise, but perhaps the gap is closing.
I'll put up a new post over the long weekend if I can remember. Fun fact, in Donald Sterling's 33 years of ownership, the Clippers lost 60+ games in a season 8 times. Josh Harris will be 3 for 5 after this season. Exciting stuff. Almost as exciting as Noel's late-season push proving to be a mirage (he's back to being an extreme offensive liability). Also exciting is 5 of the Sixers top 7 salaries probably never seeing the floor for them this season. I have no idea how you guys can muster the energy to talk about this sham.
HardwoodParoxysm made a good reference for the Okafor vs Towns matchup the other night. It was certainly encouraging - but remember how Boogie dominates Anthony Davis every time they matchup. I am not comparing the two duos as similar - but I liked the reference.
Porzingis is such an interesting development. I think logical fans will appreciate each rookie for who he is (and not jump into comparisons and who is better yet). Needless to say, Hinkie would have gotten crushed for drafting him on draft day (not that I think he cares) but may get crushed for NOT picking him (and still getting a damn good player). Also really interesting to think how zoned in the Thunder were on KP in the prior draft. Imagine he had stayed eligible and they took him? Wow.
It is sad that Wroten is viewed as a savior upon his comeback (I am included in this sad optimism). I dont want to look back to what I wrote about him last year.
We likely see some roster moves on the back of Wroten and Marshalls arrival. Im sure Wood goes to the DLeague, but do we release someone?
I seriously think if Stauskus was hitting >40% from 3 - we would have won at least 3 games already. I think he has been such a disappointment that its has caused significant collateral damage.
I am fairly confident Jefferson is the floor for Okafor. He is 19 years old and has largely dominated his defender throughout the season. His struggles have come from incredibly athletic defenders (Thunder and Jazz) - and he actually improves throughout the game playing those guys.
His defensive struggles are absolutely a concern, but also appear more "effort" related to me than anything. He actually makes some very nice plays when he is in position.
I am not blinde to his flaws (especially in this era of hoops) - but in my opinion his ceiling is much greater than Al Jefferson. And when you consider his ability to hit 15 foot jumpers AND take his man off the dribble - he can add something very unique if surrounded by shooters.
the bottom line with Okafor for me is that he WILL reach his ceiling, whatever that is... this guy is a worker and has the best attitude I've seen in a long time.
i think the Al Jeff comparison is off. thats what the haters on the lakers blog say because they drafted the second coming of Marc Macon. its was a comparison thrown around by pundits on draft day that has stuck.
Agree - although this also makes me nervous. McConnell has done a lot of what Marshall will bring....but I am hoping he can fill in where TJ is obviously not polished.
This is unbelievable. So frustrating to watch. I hate that when these games get close, Brown does not seem have any answers. That timeout was bad. Three games in a row his coaching has played a key role in losing a winnable game.
I'm not sure what is going on with Noel this year but he has been awful as of late. His defense has been weak and complacent. All progress made in his offense is a distant memory, as he has zero confidence in any single move. And of course is horrible hands are back. I could handle the offensive problems, but there is no excuse for his lack of intensity on D. How often does he still completely lose his man getting back on D?
I agree with you. Noel almost looks hurt to me - walking/running gingerly and not elevating as much on defense.
His offensive game has regressed. I think not having Ish Smith getting him easy buckets hurts his confidence (which he really needs). And not getting any type of calls hurt his confidence even more. He shouldn't be a high usage player at this point, but getting him buckets is important to keep him engaged in all segments of the game.
In no way do I mean this in a 'he-he i told you" type of way, but I find much solace in you guys that I consider to be such stout believers finally getting pissed.
Welcome to the party! Not much fun at this party, but welcome nonetheless.
I thought of you when I read this Matt Moore quote, this one about sums it up best:
"But they've gone from admirable junk pile to straight garbage."
Not sure where any "I told you so", would come from. I still support what the Sixers are doing, I just wish I could watch a better product this year. They've been unlucky. So be it. But I still feel it's the right strategy.
I am irritated by how Brown has been coaching and by how players like Noel appear to be regressing. But don't confuse my posts with some change in position on the overall strategy. Far from it.
Didn't really come from anywhere, just didn't want the post to be misconstrued when I stated it's nice to see some frustration from what I have considered to be Hinkieites by way of believing in this "shot in the dark" (tk doesn't agree with that assessment) so-called strategy.
We had a discussion last year around October on here where, at the time, you stood on firm footing that, "this comes down to one thing - Embiid", - those were pretty much your exact words. I disagreed adamantly with that position. I would surmise that you don't feel it's quite that simple anymore. Just like you felt it was going to be so simple on draft night and "we'd draft our starting backcourt tonight".
It's just kind of humorous that some of the commenters here that are genuine supporters are finally reaching what I'd call a boiling point, which myself and probably one or two others (Brian, Dollar Bill) was at from almost the beginning of this charade and took some heat from the supporters for 'not giving it enough time' and 'you can't judge the process, just the results'.
Well, it seems some of the results are finally starting to show themselves ala Noel, and Brown to a lesser degree (I don't really place much blame on him, it's long been a shit show and shit results are to be expected even from this bit-too-early pumped up coach). No backcourt or wings that are above average.
It started out as a joke, has long been a joke, and looks to continue to be a joke for the foreseeable future. It's just nice that you guys are finally reaching certain levels of frustration with this mess and not coming on here and mightily trying to part the clouds and propagate rays of sunshine on every thing this regime does. Refreshing, in a sense. Cause usually it's been excuse after excuse from the supporters, which finally seem to be running out.
You are still trying to keep this "us vs. them" narrative alive on who supports the rebuild (Hinkie) and who doesn't, huh? I really would prefer to not participate in that discussion any longer. I like what they are doing - it is just rough to go through as a fan. If Embiid never plays, that ill be an unfortunate blow to this team, but I still feel it was the right pick. At the end of the day, I want to see this team get better. I still believe this is the right path to achieve the ultimate goal of acquiring an elite talent (which is what this plan is about). Would I have signed a competent PG? Sure I would have. They didn't. I still very much support this strategy, and never thought it would be simple. So you'll have to look elsewhere for support. I flatly disagree with most of your positions regarding this team. That's OK. We can still have a discussion.
Last point, I am not sure why you hold it against me that that I thought they would draft Russell, and they did not. 1) they had no chance, 2) so did 90% of the contributors to this blog. You act like it was some absurd prediction I made, and I should be held accountable because it never happened. Also, never did I say/think that this process would be "so simple". Get over it. I never felt that way, despite how many times you tell yourself that I did. I have always considered that this plan may not work. "Life intervenes", as David Thorpe recently commented (referring to Embiid and incidents like Okafor over the weekend). It does. But this re-build is far from over, despite your premature declarations.
Please disregard the redundancies in my post. I twice wrote a bout the process not being "simple". I have kids and don't always have time to complete a thought before having to run off and complete later.
I can only speak for myself ... at some point , i may certainly concede the plan was a failure. . but i will never believe it was the wrong approach... ill have to see where we are after Embiid, Saric, any trades and the 2016 draft. i still think we have 1 transcendental star and 1 really good player in our pocket, + potentially Ben Simmons.
@preston76 #Sixers Nerlens Noel is a late scratch & will not play tonight due to rt. knee soreness. Canaan, Grant, Covington, Sampson, Okafor to start.
Hollis is so bad. On so many levels. I honestly can't wait until he is gone. The only thing he hits less than his wide-open 3's are his wide-open layups.
Overall this team has been playing much better over the last 4 games. Brown cost them two with his bad coaching, but they have been in these games. Covington getting back to form will be a huge boost. Noel going out for an extended period could really hurt.
What concerns me most, is all this is happening on the heels of the Embiid fiasco last year, when the organization did a horrendous job supervising his rehab on/off the court. He basically did what he wanted and is out an extra year because of it. Now Okafor has three incidents (two very serious ones) over the first two months of his first season. The team is seemingly unconcerned.
I have theory: he isn't a good NBA player. He couldn't get on the floor for the Kings. He hasn't been good through 18 games and a preseason here. That is a big enough sample size for me.
That sequence where Tj dove, Covington dove, Canaan dove (and missed), and Jakarr ripped the ball for a fast break dunk was pretty impressive for this team.
its great that we didn't set the 0-19 record... but at the same time, it figures the Sixers can't even tank properly... after all this, we beat the one team that we don't want to beat... neck and neck with the Lakeshow for the bottom.
Agreed. Hinkie has set up a fan experience where wins are joyless.
The only player I saw on the Lakers was Jordan Clarkson. If Kobe continues to play at this level, there's no way the Lakers climb out of the bottom 3, and I also I think the Sixers will pass them this year.
Those who said the Lakers pick may end up in the 10-15 range could very well turn out right. I didn't see the game but LA must really be awful to lose to this bum ass team.
Lakers keep the pick this year, retool over the summer, and come back without Byron Scott and with a modern, rational offense that's not predicated on Kobe chucking everything he gets his hands on. That's not an unlikely scenario.
How does everyone love this guy SOOO much without any idea if he can shoot. I get he will be a solid pro - but he is that far ahead of the rest of the pack?
Totally, totally agree. Wanted to say almost the exact same thing when I saw this comment this morning. I really don't get the infatuation with the kid at this point. Is that subject to change by March? Maybe. But I don't see what all the slobfest is about thus far.
I think in his case, the fact that he can't shoot makes him more impressive. Teams know exactly how he'll beat them and then he goes out there and does it that way anyway scoring 40 in the paint. I'm far from sold on him as the number one with how early it is, but he'd be my pick right now because of his passing and the physical tools.
Eh, but that was against North Florida Ospreys whose tallest player was around 6'7/6'8. He didn't fare too well vs the only Power 5 team he's faced so far. Agree on his passing and physical tools, I just don't see transcendent star exuding from the kid yet.
Yeah, that's a good point too. I've never even heard of that school. I didn't see the game, just looked at the shot chart and watched some highlights. I know you follow college hoops some, who do you like so far from this class?
I think i can answer that for you. Ben Simmons is the #1 pick with a bullet. it isn't close. watch 1 or 2 games for yourself. file this post away and lets come back to it in a few months. or file the one i posted 4 weeks ago saying the same thing. all of the 'experts' can/will engage in mental masturbation for the next 7 months, and love to hedge their viewpoints so no matter the outcome , they claim they told you so.
I've seen every player play that are considered to be top tier:
Labisserie
Ingram
bender
brown
murray
Dunn
None compare to Simmons. so unless someone comes out of nowhere from outside this list, he is the #1 pick .
I respect your conviction. And I respect others that are making similar claims. My concern is less about him being the consensus #1 versus how good he will actually be.
I think it is interesting this year - Okafor's numbers probably would have put him atop ROY rankings in past 2 years? (MCW + Wiggins)
But Towns and Porzingis are so damn good he is levels away. This draft looks very deep upon first impressions - a lot of these guys taken in the lotto definitely belong.
Bill Simmons called Durant being better than Oden, at the time said he was going to wind up being the best scorer in the NBA. now he's saying Ben Simmons is the best prospect since Durant. he's not right all the time but think I trust his opinion on hoops.
BB makes some incredibly questionable lineups for the last 3 minutes of games.
Wroten back and doesn't look like he has lost his quickness. I would chalk up his turnovers to "rustyness", but honestly he looked like the same game we saw last year! (In all honesty, he can penetrate better than anyone else we have)
Grant played well.
Noel stone hands bit us in the back. I really hope this knee issue goes away....he does not have spring and its taking him from elite defensive player to solid defensive player.
TJ should continue as our backup PG. Canaan should play combo guard (but not handle any primary PG duties).
It's nice to see Turnover Tony back to spice up the guard rotation.
I've always been a pretty casual fan but my interest level has hit a new low. At this point it's safe to say that Hinkie has discovered 1 legitimate rotation player in 3 years of rummaging through the league recycling bin (and Cov will be long gone or overpaid by the time this team is relevant). Hinkie's batting average is around 1/60, which I imagine puts him at or near the bottom of the league, considering teams like Miami unearthed players like Whiteside and Johnson in that span, without having the luxury of using 2/3rds of their rosters to hold open court tryouts for 3 seasons while their teams are setting historical losing records. Any "asset" acquisition has been based on dumping middling players and renting out vast amounts of unused cap space to acquire future middling draft picks at the expense of keeping the team bad. Hardly a coup.
On the draft front, 5 high draft picks have yielded 2 limited one-way players who don't fit together and are both light years away from being linchpins on any sort of a contender. The only remaining endorsement of the strategy is "I didn't like how Stefanski and Doug Collins ran things", which has always been a comically bad and non-sequitur argument.
Brown blows as a coach.
The players blow at basketball.
Hinkie blows as a talent evaluator.
The funny thing is, this can still work. One of the picks this summer could very well turn out to be a star down the line. In theory and with willing ownership, a team can keep bottoming out and continue getting super high draft picks until one finally hits. This begs the question however: is this what you would call skilled team building? I would call it a blind squirrel finding a nut. This isn't year 3 of a rebuild, this is year 1.
Your last point hit it on the head. Zach Lowe's article mentioned it as well. The plan will eventually work - the way you speed it up is luck and/or proper player evaluation. Luck hasn't been on our side. Player evaluation is coming into question as well.
I am a bit more optimistic on potential role players within the system - I just don't think role players matter much now (for obvious reasons).
I honestly think having a competent point guard would mean Jerami Grant, Isiah Canaan, and others would look far better. I believe a big problem is guys being ask/told/tested to do WAY too much. Even Noel posting up his defenders is such a questionable strategy. He has games where he goes 3/5 on post-ups - but it doesn't look much different than those he goes 1/8. His awkward shot sometimes falls - and I know you need to give young guys chances - but I don't see intelligence behind "Giving him chances to succeed"
If Covington can run into spots to be a wing shooter. And not try to dribble unless having a WIDE open lane.
If Canaan only played OFF the damn ball. He started 5/5 for three and reminded me why he looked good on the Rockets.
If Grant put his effort in on defense and was an athletic cutter who continued to work on his driving game.
It goes on and on.
I understand BB wants to develop these guys to play next to each other - or develop guys to be able to finish games. At some point you have to go with what works and it would be helpful if he did that in the last 2 minutes.
I am frustrated with the roster construction and hoping Kendall Marshall can exceed my expectations and result in more simplified roles.
He really fucked up when he drafted Okafor over Porzingis. Porzingis is going to be a top 10 NBA player in a few years.
My guess is that Hinkie took Okafor because he was the safer player.
But I don't get why Okafor is seen as a bust when he's played well this season. I still think he's going to be a future all star.
When it comes to his drafting Hinkie is nothing special. I thought he was the type of guy that would go out and get long athletic players. He passed up on Giannis, Gobert, and Porzingis.
Question wasn't directed at me but I'd say he has some questionable decisions - mostly in what he didn't do in free agency.
The draft is the most black and white way to grade "talent evaluation". I think MCW was a fine pick at 11 and he might turn that into a very valuable pick this year. Yes I would love if we had Greak Freak and Gobert on the floor but I can't fault him a ton for those - many other GMs missed on those guys and we don't have anyone with a 1.000 batting average.
Not signing Ish was questionable to me. Maybe he really didn't want to play here?
Today's article from beat writer Bob Cooney:
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/20151019_Sixers_continue_The_Process.html
"Having a hold on their players seems to be a problem the organization has dealt with the past few seasons. Both Nerlens Noel and Embiid have been fined thousands of dollars for tardiness through the years and Brown said one of the priorities of training camp was to instill the importance of players being on time and learning how to be adults."
I didn't know that Noel has been late often to practices. Was this general knowledge? This just gets better.
Great summation, Brian. Made my day. Your straight, trenchant commentary has been missed. Who do you like at the point, Canaan, Sampson or McConnell? ;)
I almost fell out my chair when i saw this banner, and it was way too tempting to not come back and comment.
I don't necessarily believe every word of the Embiid article, but the diet and Shirley Temples i do believe, and that just screams bad news to me. believe it or not, I was still holding on to hope that in 2016 Embiid would come back 100% as the next Olajuwon and Saric would come over as a high-level contributor. Low probability perhaps, but these are things that NEEDED to happen for the plan to be successful. this Shirley Temple news, to me, drastically reduces that probability from what may have admittedly been higher in my mind than in reality..
that said, I am not disappointed with this path, its more comedy than upsetting or angering to me. I can care less about winning 44 games. i know that others may feel different. Embiid was the right pick.. so was Okafor. While i love okafor's attitude and dedication, the lack of post presence is as disturbing now as it was when i called it out in his 1st summer league game. the guy might be one of these 48% shooting PFs along with 50% from the line. hopefully his work ethic will pay off with conditioning and better FTs.
if a guy can't eat healthy food prepared for him and sits around getting drunk, he probably doesn't have the intangibles to be great. although I've heard other players eating tons of candy and still playing at a high level, and in the 70s the players smoked in the locker room, so who really knows.
look forward to continuing this conversation
You do realize Shirley Temples are non-alcoholic, right? They're certainly not a protein-infused green-drink but they're not getting anyone drunk.
Steve
thanks for the clarification ! I assumed it was alcohol. not sure why its newsworthy to report someone guzzling kool-aid .. buts its funny nonetheless.. maybe i was too harsh on Embiid.. he is a freak athlete so maybe he doesn't need to drink wheatgrass. what exactly is a shirley temple anyway ?
A Shirley Temple is just Ginger Ale with a splash of grenadine (grenadine is a sweet, red, non-alcoholic syrup).
Again, it's not the pillar of a healthy diet, but certainly not even close to something that people should be grousing about w/regard to Embiid.
What if he gets a sugar rush and reinjures his foot jumping around the hotel room?
Sarsasparilla, the granddaddy of all root beers, is for gamechangers. Saloon-style sugary drink for greenhorns who dream of being rootin' tootin' cowboys. Fetch yourself one, pardners. And then lend this Embiid feller a clue.
With less "incentive" to lose, I am optimistic going into the season. So long as the Kings are bad, I don't expect many steps backward. The toughest part will be the lack of chemistry early on, but I expect the 76ers to be competitive in the last 2/3s of the season.
The streaky shooting will keep the 76ers in games. The defense will struggle, but Noel's emergence as an anchor will be more and more apparent. Okafor will do it differently every night, he will have obvious holes in his game but show flashes of offensive brilliance which result in an improved half court offense.
The negative tone will switch to "well aren't we just back where we started?" when the 76ers look competitive to sneak into the 8th seed.
Optimist ;)
i am optimistic as well. that we get the next Olajuwon in 2016, Saric, and 4 first rounders. this season , i put the over/under at 20 wins. this team is terrible. I think Okafor may actually be net-negative at this point. if you are going to be a 50% FT shooter you better shoot 70% FGs ala Deandre Jordan or else the inefficiency kills the team softly.
"With less "incentive" to lose, I am optimistic going into the season. So long as the Kings are bad, I don't expect many steps backward."
Taking steps backward would be a fairly impressive feat. If last year's team won 18 games then that appears to be close to their natural floor.
There may not be more incentive to lose but I don't perceive any sudden incentive to win either. If Hinkie wanted to upgrade the probability of winning significantly, he probably had the ability to offer Denver a more attractive package for Ty Lawson than Houston did.
Even after two rock bottom years, increasing wins in the present just doesn't appear to be much of a priority for management. The SI article is probably right. Harris is OK with Hinkie because their focus is on stacking intangible assets for the next owner. On the other hand, the executive responsible for marketing and promotion probably feels like he has the most thankless job in professional sports.
4 1st rounders aren't what they used to be. Embiid's a huge question mark. Saric: cultural acclimation time + confrontation with NBA realities + dad influence + contractual obligations/rights = another question mark.
thanks, DB.
no doubt we find ourselves in a high-risk position for having any sort of future....but also high reward.... have you seen Saric play ? the guy is salivating. and we all know Embiid was the best college player in years. so ill keep my positive view for now, until i hear Embiid is dumping Everclear into his Shirley Temples.
I haven't seen Saric play? But I recall his Superman tee on draft night. Such a tease.
?, a careless turnover.
I've seen Saric play. Imagine a more turnover prone Boris Diaw playing for the Sixers.
With Saric as Diaw, Okafor as Duncan, Wroten as Ginobili, and Brown pacing the sidelines, we can be the off-brand Spurs.
Especially when you kick two or three of those picks down the road which I expect Hinkie to do.
Anyone know when we have to finalize the roster? i see 20 players on the Sixers roster, and i have not followed close enough to know what the likely final product looks like. can someone post our likely final depth chart?
Rosters must be pared down by 10/26. My guesstimated opening night roster and depth chart:
5 - Jalil, Furkan
4 - Nerlens, Carl Landry, Christian Wood
3 - Covington, Jakarr Sampson, Jeremy Grant
2 - Sauskas, Hollis Thompson
1 - Canaan, Pierre Jackson; Wilbekin
Injured - Wroten injured until December, Kendall Marshall injured until mid-November
On bench tweeting while drinking Shirley Temples - Joel
no, seriously, all jokes aside, can someone please share the Sixers projected roster?
I wish I was that funny.
That's a solid squad except for 1, 2, 3, 4 & 5.
Jackson over McConnell to make the roster? McConnell's had a good preseason while Jackson hasn't at all.
I'd also guess that Holmes would make it over Wood.
You're probably right about Jakarr but I wish you weren't. I'd rather see them give Tokoto the opportunity.
I read today that P. Jackson's lateral movement is lacking--this from the coach--so it appears likely you will be right. O'Connell over Jackson.
The little I've seen of Wood makes me want to see more. I think he and Holmes both make it. Hell I'd rather see Holmes and Wood both make it over Aldemir.
No opinion yet on Tokoto except that I can see his potential on D.
This is the worst crop of "PG"s I have ever seen. It is painful watching them play. All of them are bad (although at least McConnel has the knowledge to play the position, just not enough talent). Honestly, none of them should make an NBA roster. Overall I've been patient with most of what Hinkie has done, but there is no excuse to not have a single NBA caliber point guard available to start the season. It reminds me a little bit of the PG play through the first part of the '97 season before we traded a second round pick for Eric Snow. I hope there is an "Eric Snow" that we can get before the start of the season.
Good stuff, both.
Remember the lottery guy who shoots near the Alamo!
For what it's worth, Saric was just voted by NBA GM's as the best International player NOT currently in the NBA.
Steve-
Saric is a really valuable chip to have. I dont think the posters here realize how good this guy is. 2016 is going to be very promising when Olajuwon is healthy, saric is here, and Ben simmons is a Sixer.. Simmons is a can't miss prospect. then we will see how all these current non-factors affect how free agents feel about coming to philly
i always thought i had a great name to blog with, but i am clearly outshined here by a guy who simply calls himself 'Sharone Wright'. on that note, i remember not being able to contain my excitement when the Sixers drafted Wright and BJ Tyler, unfortunately never working out as the next Stockton/Malone.
I was pretty exited about Turner. I knew he wasn't going to be an elite player, but I thought he was at least going to be decent scorer. It was also kind of interesting to have a lineup where the SF, SG, and PG could be the primary ball handlers. I thought with Turner the team would be able to get to the conference finals. Maybe even be in position to acquire a big name free agent after Dalembert and Kapono's contracts were off the books the following year.
Then I got excited about Bynum and then later with Embiid. And now I say fuck it. I'll refuse to be excited until after they win a title.
i never gave Turner an ounce of prospective NBA value. in fact, somewhere on this board, i am quoted saying that we should take Cole Aldrich instead of ET, and i wasn't joking. obviously that would not have been good, but scary how it would not be much worse.
In the Hinkie era, i have no 20/20 hindsight to offer on the Sixers picks and have been on the same page with every pick they make. thats why i get out of bed for the Sixers everyday. much brighter than the days of passing on paul pierce.
we should consider ourselves lucky the lakeshow took deangelo russell , another non-translating, overrated big-10 guard.
I've noticed this regime tends to make its fans say "fuck it" a lot.
... like the cynical vet in "Deer Hunter" at the wedding bar when prompted by the yet-to- knows (soon-to-be-deployed steel town neighborhood buddies).
Thanks. Sharone Wright was my first experience with disappointing Sixers first round draft picks--thus the screen name.
Robert Covington was carried out of last night's game with a sprained knee. No word on severity.
Was thinking last night while watching that pathetic display of slop, most teams' fans are watching their favorite squads and seeing how their staffs are sorting out rotations and different player combinations to end the preseason. Whereas Sixers fans are fervently discussing and attempting to pare down who the hell is going to be the 14th or 15th man on this putrid excuse of a roster. A player who likely has no business even being fortunate enough to play on this level.
"THAT", is what the hell our fanbase and rooting interests has been reduced to. What a joke!
Like, our once feverish fandom, no matter what side of the fence you're on, has reached the depths of literally discussing mostly garbage players like Christian Wood, Richaun Holmes, TJ McConnell, and Pierre fucking Jackson. And please don't critique my post and think that I left out the otherwordly talents of Furkan Aldemir and JP Tokoto.
And this is in year 3 of what was once being sold as a "rebuild". Does sense of urgency even exist anymore? Or maybe I never realized that patience existed so infinitely.
This shit sucks! As someone said above, Fuck it!
Fuck it!
Fuck it!
thats definitely one perspective.. was just on the phone with another sixer fan talking about how its oct 2015, on the cusp of a 20 -win season, but giddy like we are punch-drunk on shirley temples , talking about how good Noel is (quick mans ben wallace and best defender in the NBA) , Sarics arrival , and the prospects Embiid being one of the NBA greats.
How is it possible to have the words "NBA greats" and Embiid in the same sentence? From brains, to attitude, to fragility, there is nothing that even hints to him playing, let alone NBA greatness.
"the prospects of..... NBA greats.." just like Wiggins was (and still may be ) the next Durant.,,., Embiid, who would have been picked ahead of Wiggins, is the next Olajuwon
"the prospects of..... NBA greats.." just like Wiggins was (and still may be ) the next Durant.,,., Embiid, who would have been picked ahead of Wiggins, is the next Olajuwon
This made me laugh really hard because it is absolutely true. I admit it 100%.
We basically have a team full of "this guy might have some upside so we should keep him on the end of the bench". I remember thinking Jumaine Jones, Arnett Moultrie, Mo Speights, (I am forgetting tons of others).
Despite all of that, I am looking forward to the season actually starting. I am hoping to see some type of steady rotation that can compete.
Really hoping Covington is okay.
@ShamsCharania Philadelphia's Robert Covington has been diagnosed with sprained right MCL and bone bruise in knee, source tells Yahoo. Expected out 2 weeks
Meaning he will be out 3-4 weeks under our med team, BUT that is a huge relief.
For sad optimistics like myself, I now will inevitably feel as though we are waiting to see our true lineup of Marshall Stauskus Covington Noel Okafor for at least a month,
Meaning he will be out 3-4 weeks under our med team, BUT that is a huge relief.
For sad optimistics like myself, I now will inevitably feel as though we are waiting to see our true lineup of Marshall Stauskus Covington Noel Okafor for at least a month,
I think we need a little community Win/Loss prediction chain. I am waiting until Tuesday AM - you know that decision over Landry or Aldemir is the difference of...
8. Jahlil Okafor (Final Big: 4th, Drafted: 3rd)
Okafor was awful in both summer league and pre-season. His value is largely entirely tied into his ability to finish at the rim with his excellent length and touch, but in the pre-season he struggled to create attempts and has instead settled for mid-range shots. Consequently he shot 38.6 FG% (22/57) and drew a mere 9 FTA. He also had a terrible 4 assists vs 18 turnovers, as he did not display passing ability to offset his plummet in scoring efficiency.
Some blame can be placed on Philly’s poor guard play and spacing, and he still can become an efficient offensive weapon if he finds a way to get a higher volume shots at the rim. But thus far he has been a black hole of extreme inefficiency, and efficient scoring was his only real strength entering the draft. This is especially scary considering his poor shooting and lackluster defense, as his offense needs to translate to the NBA exceptionally well for him to have any compelling upside scenario.
I felt I gave Okafor the benefit of the doubt by ranking him 4th in the class, and now that all of his translation flags are glaring it is hard to feel optimistic. How excited would you be if your favorite team drafted a one trick pony who may not be able to translate his one trick to the NBA level?
http://deanondraft.com/2015/10/25/2015-pre-season-rookie-update-s-1-12/
lots of cuts coming.
They need to put in a waiver claim for Ish Smith before the Pelicans or someone else can nab him. they'll also be major idiots to keep Landry or Furk at the expense of Wood.
G: Marshall, Wroten, Smith
G: Thompson, Stauskas, Canaan
F: Covington, Grant, Sampson*
F: Noel, Holmes, Wood
C: Okafor, Aldemir*, Embiid
is what I hope to see. If Sampson and Aldemir can be cut in favor of someone from another team, I'm all for that.
we'll find out shortly.
I forgot McConnell. He had a very solid preseason and they'll be really thin at PG to start the year, so I'd keep him over Jakarr.
@ShamsCharania The 76ers are waiving guard Scottie Wilbekin and have informed rookie forward Christian Wood he has made team, league source talks Yahoo
Philadlephia has released forward Furkan Aldemir, league sources tell Yahoo Sports. Aldemir had a contract guarantee of nearly $3 million.
Pierre Jackson waived, per Philly.com.
Philly.com also says that J.P. Tokoto will be waived. If these reports true, that means just one more cut to get down to 15. I'm thinking Jordan McRae will be gone.
yea spears says its mcrae
So the roster, per sources, is:
G: Marshall, Wroten, McConnell
G: Thompson, Stauskas, Canaan
F: Covington, Grant, Sampson
F: Noel, Holmes, Wood, Landry
C: Okafor, Embiid
6 of these guys are hurt and won't be ready for Wednesday. They can't even run 5 on 5.
would expect alot of early struggles on offense but once marshall, covington and stauskas they shouldnt be as bad
come back*
Even with everyone healthy, those PG's are pretty marginal and could really hurt player development (I won't even talk about W/L, as that is hardly relevant to this type of roster.)
As much as I generally support the radical rebuild, I am critical that this is 2 years in a row that they lack clearly serviceable options at key positions in a way that could harm player development and evaluation.
I'm all for avoiding mediocre vets if they play at the expense of a promising young player. But this team currently lacks any promising young PG's. Given the depth of quality NBA PG's, and how a good PG helps your bigs and shooters develop, I see no excuse for Hinkie entering this season without one.
The only guy who conceivably can fit this description is Marshall. But he is super-slow to start with and is not even fully recovered from an ACL repair.
This very much reminds me of the start of last year, where they entered the season with no NBA caliber shooters or PG. The first 15+ games was a throw away (look how bad Nerlens looked to start) and they were lucky Covington proved to be NBA ready once acquired. Similarly, Ish performed reasonably well after MCW was traded... but I doubt they get that from Canaan and McConnell, and Marshall is an open question.
"Given the depth of quality NBA PG's, and how a good PG helps your bigs and shooters develop, I see no excuse for Hinkie entering this season without one."
I see a likely excuse. That veteran PG will cost money and probably carries a multi-year contract. He could have acquired Ty Lawson for a couple of future picks this summer but obviously Hinkie's idea of "building for the future" does not include spending any money or reducing future cap space to improve the play on the court currently.
What have you seen in the last two years of Hinkie's reign that makes you surprised that he's entering this season with the roster he has? If you just look at what Hinkie has done so far, you should be resigned to the fact that he doesn't care much about winning more now and stop complaining that he's not doing the things that a normal GM with normal expectations would do.
If the young players with elite potential are less developed in a couple of years than they might have been with a veteran quality point guard, so be it. That probably will be the new owner and GM's problem.
that's intentional though. they want to start out in a hole so that if Noel and Okafor get better as the year goes on (which I would assume is the goal), any wins that come about because of their improvement don't jeopardize their shot of a top 3 pick. seems they've done a pretty good job of that. i'd be shocked if they get to 5 wins before New Year's
"that's intentional though. they want to start out in a hole so that if Noel and Okafor get better as the year goes on (which I would assume is the goal), any wins that come about because of their improvement don't jeopardize their shot of a top 3 pick."
At this point, I don't think they're all that worried about the ranking on their highest pick. Given the quality of the team, it would have to be pretty high anyway.
I think the primary strategy is saving cap space and goodies for a future owner. Right now they have no significant veteran contracts that cut flexibility and Noel is the only rookie contract coming due within the next few years. Add the stockpiling of future picks (at least two of the four that may come this year will likely be kicked down the road) and this team has lots of attractive features for an ownership group that would actually be serious about building a team. Harris & company will expect to be paid for those features.
here is your draft picks to track for the year
Pick(s) Owed: 2nd round pick to BOS
Possible Incoming Pick(s):
LAL( top 3 protected)
MIA( top 10 protected)
OKC(top 15 protected)
The right to swap the sixers first round pick with the Kings(but only if its in the top 10, if not it goes to CHI)
Also have the right to swap the MIA pick or OKC pick with GS
And they have Denver's 2nd round pick
pretty sure i didnt miss anything
thank you Sixerfan..
it looks we get all those picks,.. i can't see the Lake being top 3... odds are Sixer get their own 1-3 and the Lakers maybe a late lottery, hopefully top 10 .. ill be watching a lot of LSU this year, Ben Simmons is the guy i want.
Seems like there is a fairly good chance they get all of those picks. I'd expect he tries to package some of them in a deal of some sort.
Opener. Boston Celtics. All players on roster but Landry 24 and under. 0-0 unmarred record. "Star" and head coach from region; Xtra adrenaline performances, which could be good or bad. Okafor's 1st; have oxygen tank handy. Canaan could go off for 43, Hollis 32. Televised. All I got.
Reminder: league pass is free for the week
didnt know that ! now I can watch the game .. . i am certain it would not have been the NBATV showcase game
Stauskas is playing tonight with a minutes restriction
will be watching but wont be in the thread tonight
Noel and Okafor worth the price of admission this season.. Lakers must be kicking themselves... okafor looked great scoring, a lot of bad turnovers , it looks like he fixed his FT%... good times ahead.
Loved what I saw out of Okafor and Noel. But good lord the point guard play...embarrassing does not accurately describe it. I think we got our first assist by a guard halfway through the 3rd Q. Inexcusable.
oh dear lord, the guard play was horrific. I've never seen so many wasted possessions in an NBA game.
back to the ongoing argument of Sixers vs Celtics..... I would much rather be a Sixers fan than a celtics fan. the celtics team represents everything i do not want in a rebuild.... they are going nowhere. Smart will end up being a good player, but other than that they have a bunch of middling NBA misfits that on a good day win 44 games. is the idea they are supposed to get a superstar free agent?
Billy King gave them the Nets next 3 first round picks (two are pick swaps.)
yea Celts are set up pretty damn well right now. they're going to get a top 5 pick this year from Brooklyn, who might be the worst team in the league
lol really ? everyone one on here complains when the sixers only have a 'top 5' ... now its a great thing ? okafor and noel are each better than any 'asset' the celts have... and frankly so are Saric and Embiid... this years draft is a 2 player draft... Simmons and Labissiere ...
oh jeez...this sounds like some LB content.
Saric is an absentee tweener who is below average athletically, defensively, shooting-wise, and jumps off the screen as much for his turnovers as for his slick passing. Embiid combines the durability of Oden with the character of Bynum.
The Celtics are a young playoff team with a solid roster framework, probably the best young coach in the game, and every good player is under 26 except Amir Johnson, who is 28. They're infinitely more likely to lure key free agents than Philly and will have as many as 8 picks in the upcoming draft (4 in the first round, headlined by the BK crown jewel as stated above by mpads).
http://www.tankathon.com/
Now I agree that Okafor looked very good in his pro debut but he came at the price of sucking for two years and the best picks the Sixers have coming up are their own (+ the LA pick), similarly bought for the price of being unwatchable for 3+ years. They could even do this for the next 10 years if you like and get some more guys like Noel and Okafor! I don't know if that's your thing, but I'm not really into it.
"this years draft is a 2 player draft"
I'm not sure how you can say that when the NCAA season hasn't even started yet and the draft class is shaping up to be a very solid one by most accounts (Simmons, Ingram, Murray, Bender, Labissiere, Brown, etc.), but if that's true, it hurts Philly more than Boston because the Sixers need to hit on multiple picks to make up lost ground.
I've had this Sixers plan vs. Celtics plan discussion in the past with The Six, and it really comes down to a value debate. The amount of future assets are comparable between the two teams, but the Celtics are competetive now and will continue to be in the near future, which is something I value. I'm 24 and I'll be an old man before the Sixers are competitive at the rate Hinkie is going.
Buke said it best a while ago - there are fans who enjoy watching games and there are fans who enjoy fantasizing about draft picks. Put me down for the former, put a large segment of Sixer fans down for the latter, and put Celtics fans down as having the luxury of doing both.
Thanks for the reference!
Agree with your assessment of the Celtics vs. the Sixers. Okafor may have more star quality than any single player they have on their roster, but they have a roster full of players who contribute and I would say that's more fun to watch than two potential young stars surrounded by an indifferently designed roster.
The Sixers may well be a better team in four years, but that will take either a complete reversal of goals by current management or the sale of the team to an ownership that cares about pleasing the fans by making this team relevant (in a good way) again.
Actually, what it would take is some good luck.
Here is a good luck scenario for 2 years from now...
1. Embiid fully recovers the way that big Z did after his bone graft as is an impact 20-25 min game center.
2.Okafor and Noel develop to reach the reasonable ceilings at age 23 and 21.
3. After a few years of bad luck in terms of lottery and pick, the Sixers get fairly lucky this year- getting top 2 with their own pick and top 5 with LA. After 2 years, both of those players are heading to be very good pros (say one in the Noel/Jah range and the other a bit better.) One is a PG, the other a wing.
4. Covington is 27 and entering the last year of his 1M contract.
So that means completely ignoring the cap space, pick swaps, current other players, Saric, Miami, OKC and 2017 Sixer first round picks... In 2 years you still have:
PG: Top 5 pick entering second season
SG: Top 2 pick entering second season
SF: Covington age 26 a 1M/year
F: Noel entering 4th season (age 23)
C: Okafor entering 3rd season (age 21)
Bench: Embiid entering 2nd season (age 23)
I'd say that is a very watchable and compelling roster- especially given all of the other potential pieces you put around that with cap space and their other picks/players depending on how people develop.
@anomiemnemonical
first off, thanks for the tank link ! it will be great to follow for the season...
never posted on LB, but i am certainly in the camp of not caring about 48 wins in the East.
on Saric, ill go with what I've seen in his play, and the fact that NBA GMs believe he is the best non-NBA professional player in the world. that says a lot considering how significant world competition has become in the last 10 years. so would i trade him for Smart or the C's #1 pick this year? no way. nor would I do so with embiid. therefore IMO, the sixers have 4 assets better than anything boston has.
i agree the C's are a deep team with a great coach. and its easy to say a team isn't good enough to be a championship team until they win one, ala Detroit..... that said, i think what the Sixers have is too heavily discounted here. I don't often hear doctors say a player should "have a full recovery"... that never happened with the comps of Oden and Big Z... thats the case here.. and big Z had zero athleticism and more awkward body... so i am not going to say Emiids 'good luck' case is 25 mins a game [referring to a another post]....its just not factual.
its a 2player draft (yes its early) because there are 2 athletic 7 footers that run the floor & handle the ball and one plays 5 positions. but yes, my fingers are cross that sixers finally get #1...
one of the knocks on okafor was he would be 55% FT shooter. well, he clearly isn't that. he worked hard enough to somehow become at least a serviceable FT shooter , and that says a lot. i think the TOs will come down as he gains experience and awareness. this guys might be very special...
frankly, with a serviceable PG, the Sixers could have won last night. with all the depth of Boston, they didnt look so great. Noel and Okafor are inefficient because they are the only options and never get set up in good position.
Just to clarify the medical situation for Embiid and his possible outcomes:
1. I was fairly critical of the Sixers drafting Embiid based on the fact that he is a 7 footer who had 2 different stress fractures in 6 months before the draft. I was concerned he may just be susceptible and lack durability.
2. But in regards specifically to the navicular fracture- even after 2 procedures there is no reason to think that he will be hobbled or sapped of his athleticism. The bone will either heal or it won't. Then it will either stay intact or re-fracture (which is why I talked of "luck.")
Guys who play for months on a fractured foot (like Andrew Toney or Big Z before his surgery) are permanently damaged. But guys who get the fracture fixed promptly (like Michael Jordan at age 22) do not suffer a loss of athleticism any more than any other broken bone. This is not like a guy with an arthritic condition like Oden or Bynum.
3. Embiid will lose at least 2.5 years of key development time, which likely affects his ceiling. And if he heals, I expect minute limits the first 2 years and lots of serial MRI exams to ensure the bone continues to mineralize (which takes several years after this type of repair.)
So that is the medical reasoning behind my Embiid "luck" statement. They will be lucky if he heals and gets to play (and does not re-fracture.) But if he heals, then there is no reason to expect he will be some hobled shell of his former self. No more than MJ at 24 was a worse athlete then before his navicular fracture. And after 2 years healthy, I'd expect he would be reasonably out of the woods in terms of minute restrictions.
In terms of putting a percentage chance on "getting good luck with Embiid"- that is challenging. My spitball educated guess is he has about a 67% chance of "healing" to where he plays again. Then maybe a 50% chance he does not re-fracture in those first few years. After that, he's probably as risky as any 7 footer. So that would be a cumulative 33% chance of a good outcome, and maybe drop that to 25% given other injuries can happen even if the foot heals. So a 1 in 4 chance of getting a favorable "lucky" outcome with Embiid.
And FWIW, at the time of the draft that number was closer to 70% given that most initial Navicular repairs on clean breaks are successful (85% initial success and then risk of reinjury.) That was a calculated risk I would be wary of- and I was at the time, but not a crazy risk given the potential reward in relation to the other guys on the board at #3.
NB- this info is to the best of my knowledge. I'm sure someone with greater expertise in the field could provide better estimates. My main point is that there is a chance that Embiid plays and retains his athleticism... but after the first failed repair the chance is now significantly less than 50%... thus requiring luck on the Sixers part.
thanks TK , those are helpful insights.
i still believe Embiid has a legitimate chance at reaching a super high ceiling,..... lets remember , when Wiggins was valued as the next 'chosen one' , pre-injury Embiid was likely getting picked ahead of him.... the next Olajuwon is still out there - i will keep using this comparison so i can link these posts in a year and claim my prize...
tk,
I'm more or less with Brian here. I don't believe these guys (Hinkie and Harris that is) want 1) to use all of the first rounders they have or 2) wish to accelerate significant winning improvements in this team. I'm taking an investment pricing perspective here where investments are valued more on future benefits than current results. The more draft picks they use and any valuable free agents they may sign, reduce the draft picks and cap space for a future owner and accelerate the time when bills come due. I expect them to boot at least two of these first rounders into the future if they end up getting four.
If the two young big men continue to develop as expected, they don't really need Embiid. I fully expect to see them try to trade Embiid for some mid-level or lower level first rounder if he recovers and demonstrates that he is serviceable.
I think the ideal situation for selling this team in two years would be if the team had four or five good young players in place, was approaching 40 wins, had two or three extra future first rounders coming, and still had plenty of cap space. That would lead a prospective buyer to believe that the best is yet to come.
There is no way to argue the owners motivations- as it is unknowable. People sad the same things about Lurie when he bought the Eagles. Ultimately, I'm not sure it matters. If Harris sells the team in a few years and it is more valuable because it has marketable young stars, now bad contracts and lots of future picks... then that is not exactly a bad thing.
Basically, we used to have corporate owners who wanted cheap programming for CSN and were afraid to ever rebuild because it would hurt ratings and gate receipts for 2-3 years and a corporate owner won't take that hit. Sure they wanted a star, but the AI trade proved they were unwilling to face the pain of rebuilding to get a good chance at one.
Now they have owers that are willing to get killed at the gate and in ratings for multiple years for the chance to greatly increase the value of the team... which translates into having a marketable star as opposed to a mediocre 40 win team. Whether they want this in order to build a winner or build market value for a sale- either way it is good long term.
"Now they have owers that are willing to get killed at the gate and in ratings for multiple years for the chance to greatly increase the value of the team... which translates into having a marketable star as opposed to a mediocre 40 win team. Whether they want this in order to build a winner or build market value for a sale- either way it is good long term."
I agree that in the long term it doesn't matter whether this ownership or some other ownership has a winning team. My only point is that accelerating the chance of winning may diminish the sale value of this team because it may reduce the potential of future benefits to a new owner. Buyers don't get the benefits of past results. They get the benefits or detriments of the future. That is why I don't expect current ownership to win very much before they sell this team.
If one bought the Detroit Pistons at the end of the 2005 season, they would be buying the best team in the eastern conference but it was a team on the verge of decline and almost all those benefits were already realized by the selling owners. A young 40 win team on the rise with lots of cap space, no constraining contracts, and entitled to multiple future picks is a much better investment.
"...i am certainly in the camp of not caring about 48 wins in the East."
A bifurcation like that always ends up in a false binary. There are other choices besides 'Hinkie Process' and 'Perennial 8th seed'. This regime has taken the Build through the Draft mantra to its logical extreme, which I don't really have a problem with, but they've made enough errors to set the timeline back much further than what should be acceptable in my opinion.
"on Saric, ill go with what I've seen in his play, and the fact that NBA GMs believe he is the best non-NBA professional player in the world."
He was also recently ranked the 41st best player in Euroleague.
http://www.eurohoops.net/tr/trademarks-tr/133819/euroleague-top-100-50-41/11
I don't think he's a better or more accomplished player than Mirotic was at that age for example, and I think he'll be more flashy but less useful in the NBA than Mirotic and even Bjelica, but we'll see.
"one of the knocks on okafor was he would be 55% FT shooter. well, he clearly isn't that. he worked hard enough to somehow become at least a serviceable FT shooter"
6 FTA sample size...but I hope you're right.
"its a 2player draft (yes its early) because there are 2 athletic 7 footers that run the floor & handle the ball"
lol so you want to draft another C/PF?
Jah has hit 14 of 15 FT if you include preseason- so very promising.
As for the rebuild- no doubt there are lots of ways to rebuild. But you also have to look at your starting point. For whatever reason, BK was willing to give up 3 years worth of unrestricted Nets #1 draft picks for a 37 year old KG, and other teams gave up assets for Pierce and Doc Rivers. The Celtics also entered the rebuild with their future #1 picks in place. While the Sixers started out with Jrue, Thad, ET and Hawes as their assets and were 2 #1 picks in the hole after the Bynum and Moultrie trades.
So I don't think the Sixers were in the position to stay competitive and acquire quality future assets. The Celtics basically have a 3 year pass to be as good as they can be and still get lottery picks from BK (the Nets.) The Sixers might end up in the similar situation if the Kings self destruct to where the Sixers get multiple lottery picks from the Kings over the next 4 years.
Isn't Saric only 21 years old? To be in the top 50 in Euroleague at age 21 seems a nice feat to me, no?
Another good season there and I'm sure his "rankings" will rise for whatever that's worth.
I think Mirotic was 22 when he made the All Euroleague 2nd team for the first time. Saric could easily do that this year, I'd imagine.
From what I understand these rankings are a projection for the upcoming season, so beating his projected rank by 30 spots is possible but not very likely. He could just as easily slide.
i hear you on the 48 wins, it was kind of a flippant comment. but thats how i view most of these East teams with no star. like i said, i was wrong on the pistons - they won it all...
thank you for another great link i have never seen !
i took a closer look, keep in mind its a euroleague fanboy ranking that takes into account 'team worth' as one of the inputs. jan vesley is #5 and rudy fernandez #6 (is he 40 ? )... ill go with the GMs who run NBA teams.... its not exactly DraftExpress type analysis.
http://www.eurohoops.net/trademarks/135029/euroleague-top-100-10-1/7
on Okafors FTs,,, yes , small sample, but apparently he was 14-15 in last preseason games (dont have the exact data but seems like something a 55% shooter would never be able to do)
i want to draft ben simmons, a can't miss NBA star. he plays 5 positions but will make a nice 3.
DX is essentially "fanboy" rankings too. Most "professional" college & HS scouting is (unless you're employed by a pro team). It's a website that may get a lot of hits but their scouts are just some dudes who watch a lot of basketball and nerd out to standing reach measurements. It's not like there's some formal training or license or certification in "basketball scouting".
Saric being drastically outranked by a bunch of NBA flameouts like Vesely and Rudy Fernandez doesn't bode well under any circumstances in my opinion, even with age being accounted for (like Steve mentions, Niko Mirotic was top 10 roughly at the same age at which Saric is projected to be 41st, and of course Mirotic was also a late pick by a team who could afford to stash and didn't need that pick on the floor pronto).
But my point was more in response to your claim that he's the best non-NBA player in the world, not that you should drop him from 1 to 41. I think both rankings are extremely subjective and hold little predictive value, since they're all over the place. I guess if you want a more objective, quant-based take, Pelton did a regression for per-minute stats translating from Euroleague to the NBA for currently stashed players and Saric ranked 22nd, behind guys like Petteri Koponen and Kazemi even.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2015/insider/story/_/id/13081815/nba-draft-evaluating-nba-team-draft-stash-talent
But he didn't control for age or much else really so there are problems with his rankings too.
**DX is essentially "fanboy" rankings too. Most "professional" college & HS scouting is (unless you're employed by a pro team). It's a website that may get a lot of hits but their scouts are just some dudes who watch a lot of basketball and nerd out to standing reach measurements. It's not like there's some formal training or license or certification in "basketball scouting".**
This is what I don't get. You knock DraftXpress and call them fanboys, rendering their analysis meaningless, yet when a poll of NBA GENERAL MANAGERS rank Saric as the best player not currently in the NBA, you still don't accept it??? Why is that?
Don't NBA GM's fit your criteria of having "formal training or license or certification in basketball scouting"???
Again, I have no idea if Saric is going to be an awesome NBA player or not. Maybe he will, maybe he won't. We both are using the info that's out there to fit our arguments. I'm choosing to take the word of NBA GM's in this case.
FWIW, I don't dispute the 41st best Euroleague ranking at all. Those rankings aren't based on his NBA future as far as I can tell. Euro leagues are notorious for not valuing young players as much as they do "crafty" vets. Playing time reflects that. If you look at the Euroleague first and second teams last year, every single player is a "crafty vet". Everyone on the first and second team is over 26 years old (other than Devin Smith)
Steve,
thanks for chiming in. draft express is widely considered the best source of data and scouting for the NBA draft. i certainly don't consider them fanboys, but rather legitimate scouts.. spend 5 minutes on the site, the analysis and data is impressive- these guys have access to all the players (interviews etc), put together their own scout videos, etc. to compare them to that Eurosite, at least from what i see isn't apples to apples.
More importantly, as you noted, the criteria used on the Eurosite has nothing to do with NBA viability . and the criteria they use to rank, i.e. 'team worth', 'players role' are not really relevant IMO . i highlighted top 10s fernandez and vesley to discount their ranking system, whereas anomiemnemonical sees that ranking as justification for discounting Saric...
as we have all said, all this is subjective, but ill go with the actual stakehholders- NBA GMs.
Is Boston really doing anything special?
Right now their future hinges on what draft pick Brooklyn gives them. In the last 3 drafts they've taken Terry Rozier, Marcus Smart, James Young, RJ Hunter, and Kelly Olynyk.
They only made the playoffs last year because they were in a weak conference in which both Miami and Indiana were going through injury issues. Put them in a playoff series against Utah, Phoenix, or Toronto and they'd be lucky to win 2 games.
I just don't understand the praise they're getting. Last year they had the 16th pick in the draft and they couldn't do anything to move up 6 spots to draft Justice Winslow. No notable free agent is going to sign there either.
There is nothing special about them. It's a team loaded full of sixth men and little more. The Brooklyn picks are nice, but not better than what the Sixers have draft-wise.
In reality, Boston is taking a different path than the Sixers. Only time will tell who will be more successful. But there is no reason to conclude that because Boston can accumulate more short-term wins, that their "plan" is any better, or that they are "building something". We all know it will come down to obtaining a star player (through draft, FA, or trade). Boston swung and missed with their garbage mid-round picks on draft day last year. Nobody wanted any part of them. Even throwing in a Brooklyn pick got them nowhere. Then they swung and missed with Kevin Love. So their path is just as unclear at this point.
Hypothetical: If you are Indiana, and you realize that you need to trade Paul George. Whose assets would you covet more, Boston's or Philly's? For me, it's the Sixers, which is why I like this plan better. Although it is admittedly very painful to go through as a fan.
Very good point. If a team is forced to trade away a star (like Minny and Kevin Love last year), then I'd expect any smart GM would take a selection of the Sixers assets over what Boston has to offer.
Would you take Noel + this year's Sixer #1 + Lakers #1
or would you take Smart + 2 Nets picks? How interested would you be as an opposing GM to acquire Sullinger or Olynk or Isiah?
I guess a GM like BK takes the middling 24-27 year olds to avoid bottoming out as when BK chose to get Miller, Smith and lesser picks in the AI trade. But I would think most GM's would prefer higher upside assets over a collection of nice role players.
I hate the Celtics and Danny Ainge, so I begrudgingly give them this: the Celtics somehow are putting out a competitive team AND getting good draft picks, as opposed to tanking for three or four years.
Right now I agree with you that I would not switch with them, but I am trying to wash out the residual taste in my mouth from watching so many bad games.
My take on last night's game:
Let's start with Okafor. If you watched him play last night and didn't get excited thinking about his future then you're dead inside. He's 19-years old. Think on that for a minute. 3-years from now after having a few years of NBA experience and the requisite size/strength increases, he's gonna be a monstrosity. The footwork, hands and smarts were readily visible in the game, and his 6-6 from the line was a huge plus. Even picturing him a few months down the line is exciting as he adjusts to the nightly grind.
He's clearly not ready, fitness-wise, for the NBA. That's not a knock on him either. No 19-year old big man is ever ready for the speed and constant motion necessary. That said, he played 35+ mins last night and although he looked a bit sluggish in the middle quarters, really played well in the first/fourth.
Nerlens was really good too. He's such a menace on the floor defensively and now is looking so much more comfortable on the offensive end. Even Heinsohn was impressed with him last night, lol.
The guards, however, were a disaster. Canaan hit a few threes but no one could set up the offense, often dumping the ball into the post with
Sixers continue to get no respect from the refs (they don't really deserve it, haha) as Jah, Nerlens and co. got mugged repeatedly by the C's w/o any whistles. It's to be expected on the road on opening night.
disagree.
My take on last night's game:
Let's start with Okafor. If you watched him play last night and didn't get excited thinking about his future then you're dead inside. He's 19-years old. Think on that for a minute. 3-years from now after having a few years of NBA experience and the requisite size/strength increases, he's gonna be a monstrosity. The footwork, hands and smarts were readily visible in the game, and his 6-6 from the line was a huge plus. Even picturing him a few months down the line is exciting as he adjusts to the nightly grind.
He's clearly not ready, fitness-wise, for the NBA. That's not a knock on him either. No 19-year old big man is ever ready for the speed and constant motion necessary. That said, he played 35+ mins last night and although he looked a bit sluggish in the middle quarters, really played well in the first/fourth.
Nerlens was really good too. He's such a menace on the floor defensively and now is looking so much more comfortable on the offensive end. Even Heinsohn was impressed with him last night, lol.
The guards, however, were a disaster. Canaan hit a few threes but no one could set up the offense, often dumping the ball into the post with less than 10 secs on the shot clock. I don't know much about Kendall Marshall other than he's a pretty old-school PG, and that type of player will be a welcome addition come late November when he's back on the floor. Will also be nice to see Covington and Stauskas mixed into the rotation and see what their shooting does to this thing.
Sixers continue to get no respect from the refs (they don't really deserve it, haha) as Jah, Nerlens and co. got mugged repeatedly by the C's w/o any whistles. It's to be expected on the road on opening night.
agree.
Agree with your assessment. I think Okafor's conditioning would be fair enough for this point of the season if the Sixers had any bench at all and a decent enough back up center (I actually wish they had kept Aldemir as a backup for defense and pick setting). Right now, the team seems to need both Okafor and Noel on the court to be effective and at least one of them on the court at all times to prevent total collapse.
Agree that Canaan is not a point guard but I thought he was a decent contributor last night. He's a better shooter than MCW anyway. McConnell looked really overmatched for much of the game but seemed to improve as the game went on. He might develop into an adequate backup if Marshall can take the starting job.
Obviously Hinkie reserves a certain portion of the roster each year to second rounder and undrafted free agent tryouts. Hasn't Hollis' tryout lasted long enough?
12 assists, 22 turnovers. Excellent, fundamental basketball. God do I wish they'd gotten Brett Stevens instead of Brown. Should've listened to me in 2010 :( http://www.depressedfan.com/basketball/sixers/mark-jackson-is-on-the-radar.php
Except Stevens probably would not have taken the job then even if offered. He signed something like a 12 year deal in April of that year. He had a lot of offers, but he didn't leave Butler until three years later.
okafor vs gobert should be really fun tonight
though favors might guard okafor and then gobert can roam off noel
I expect this to be an ugly one for Okafor. Obviously hoping he proves me wrong, but Gobert is the type that can magnify Okafor's limited athleticism.
yeah . i probably should have waited 2 games before i anointed oakafor, lol. this may be a 4-17 type night
yes, should be a good test for Okafor. Gobert and Favors might be the best defensive C PF combo in the league, so it'll be interesting to see how he responds. and if he'll get a little more help from the guards tonight.
I thought the first game was very encouraging. I can see how a combination and Okafor and Noel would work with a mix of shooters around them. Canaan was massively better working off the ball. If that is his role, you wonder the overlap between him and Stauskus.
I am really looking forward to watching Okafor and Noel develop chemistry. There is a lot of intelligence and passing ability between the two of them - and its a different element of the game versus the shooting rush around the league
noel block leads to a shot clock violation
lazy entry pass leads to a fast break and hood heads to the line
makes both
favors on okafor that possession
canaan step back 3
heyward stunts at noel in the post and he hits a cutting sampson
jakarr to the line
split them
noel almost puts gobert on a poster
Canaan fouled shooting a 3
made 1 of 3
okafor jumper
favors with a nice move over noel
time for the twice of year alec burks destroying the sixers to happen
im not against stauskas being the backup pg when he can play a full load of minutes
stauskas to the line
split them
grant drive and dunk
booker airball
noel misses a hook shot
noel to the line
made both
down 28-19 end of the first
someone should tell TJ trey burke isnt good and you dont need to go over screens when guarding him
noel has made some nice moves in the post but hasnt been able to finish
noel o-board
okafor finishes through gobert
grant to the line
made both
gobert is huge
long not huge
Jakarr horrible dumb foul. Burks 4 pointer
grant jumper goes in ends a 13-0 run
grant to okafor
offense is a mess
great move and pass by okafor to hollis
more of that
canaan fouled shooting a 3
made 2 of 3
hollis to the line
made both
down 50-33 at the half
nice d by okafor on favors
and then a bad job there
i think gobert is in canaan's head
grant 3
noel to the line
made both
grant to the line
split them
canaan to the line
made both
holli 3
down 74-53 end of the 3rd
if they showed up the first 6 minutes they might of been able to dig into the lead
staus fouled shooting a 3
made all 3
like okafor going at gobert even though it hasnt worked a ton
he goes to the line
split them
gets the o-board and gets fouled again and goes to the line
split them
really hope the jazz make the playoffs so people realize how good favors is
hollis 3
canaan to the line
made both
lost 99-71
VS CLE on Monday
Loved how Okafor handled a real tough defensive matchup tonight. Those two guys are a couple of beasts. Anyone could see that Okafor could/would have some trouble with their length and athleticism, but he adjusted his game and found ways to score. I was most impressed by that series when he went after Gobert on two straight possessions. After watching D'Angelo Russell completely wilt in a match-up with Rubio the other night, it was good to see Okafor not be intimidated. Very impressive for a 19 yr old.
And of course....the PG play. The most embarrassing PG play in Sixers history continues. I seriously can't believe this team is rolling these guys out there. That takes balls.
I've seen some people here suggest the Lakers pick will be in the 10-15 range. Can you explain your reasoning. To me they seem like a sure fire bottom 5 team given they play in the West.
"Can you explain your reasoning"
they dont want to give the sixers credit for anything
My god...I have watched the first two LAL games. Watched SACTO drop 74 pts by halftime. I had previously thought the Sixers were guaranteed to see that pick convey this year, but not anymore. Now, Russell should improve even though he looks lost out there now. But their defense, especially on the perimeter is abysmal. This is a top 5 lotto team if there ever was one. I believe the pick is unprotected next year, so it's not a tragedy if it does not convey this year, but this Laker team stinks.
correction: LAL pick protected 1-3 in 2016 and 2017. Unprotected in 2018.
My reasoning was that they could've added somebody in free agency. If you look back in the "He'd be a starter if" thread though, nobody really had a problem with the MCW trade in and of itself, the only complaint was that this is taking too long.
Lakers 10-15 ??? who said anything like that ? this laker team is rancid. I would say there is a great chance they are top 3, may even push the sixers for the worst record. Speaking of this , who are the teams that can possibly be bottom 3 ... to me, its the Sixers, Nets, and Lakers with the Sixers having a 5 game cushion... who else is even a possibility ? Indiana? Charlotte?
3 years 21 million for lamb!!!!!!!!!
I think this "the cap is rising so let's be careless" thing will come back to haunt some of these teams.
just cause you have money doesnt mean you need to spend it
yep.
Covington and Stauskas starting
would expect covington to be on a minutes limit
http://www.csnphilly.com/basketball-philadelphia-76ers/scott-oneil-joel-embiids-rehab-going-ahead-schedule
Lmao
dont have my hopes up for noel on love but we'll see
these red jerseys are nice
couple of good looks early havent fallen
lebron and 1
made the ft
nice drive by stauskas
nice d by okafor in the post there
canaan to the line
made both
okafor from the post
rc steal, misses a 3
okafor putback
hollis fouled shooting a 3
made all 3
nice finish by noel
nice probing by tj leads to a noel dunk
noel jumper
spacing looks a ton better tonight
CLE turnover
nice pass by noel leads to a stauskas 3
9-0 run, sixers up 20-15
time out CLE
noel dunk
tj spin and layup
steals it then dribbles it out of bounds
okafor dunk
cle turnover
noel putback
holmes to the line
split them
canaan 3 at the buzzer
UP 32-18 end of the 1st
stauskas looks great off the dribble tonight by the way
covington to the line
made both
grant to the line
split them
nice d by grant on love in the post
tj missed jumper
covington in transition
love and 1
made the ft
hollis 3
cant love get that deep in the post
13-5 CLE run
timeout sixers
okafor from the post
noel dunk
credit where its due, tj is all over the pace
place*
okafor backs down love
mo for 3
okafor jumper
okafor to the line
made both
stauskas to the line
made both
offense sputtering at the end of the half here
up 54-49 at the half
offense died at the end there
hell of a first half, I miss games like this.
Lebron held to 10 points on 11 shots but his ball distribution is driving the Cavs, 8 assists to 2 turnovers.
Noel and Okafor combining for 26.
McConnell doing his Delly impression better than Delly himself tonight.
The Grant/Sampson/Holmes/Wood 2nd/3rd unit Forward rotation is going to weigh them down all year because of how raw they are.
Keep it going, it'd be nice to get this W over a legit contender.
Agreed. I am hoping we get more of this throughout the season. I know it will sputter but there are real players out there.
Seems like shrinking the rotation would help - but I understand that is unlikely to happen with young guys and stamina.
Hoping we pull this out but not getting my hopes up.
Very pleased with Stauskus thus far.
4 fouls on okafor
and the lead is gone
okafor and 1
missed the ft
nice finish by grant
time out cle
down 64-58
meek mill interview!!!!!!!!
nice move noel
thank you for pulling Covington. he was building a house out there
i know hes missing and taking some bad shots but him being out there is helping the spacing
nice entry by tj to okafor
stauskas 3
just throw it to okafor in the post every play
down 82-72 end of the 3rd
stauskas for 3
noel to the line
missed both
okafor in the post
hollis has missed like 3 or 4 wide open 3's
lebron throws one down
https://vine.co/v/e32xmp29q51
okafor has pretty much dominated mozgov tonight
even his misses are good looks
lost 107- 100
@ MIL on WED( jabari parker is suppose to play)
welp, good 1st quarter anyway. And good late effort by the bench unit to pull it within single digits.
Nice work by Okafor - 24/3/0, got swatted a few times but Mozgov and Tristan Thompson are no slouches defensively.
McConnell - 6/7/12 assists 0 To, +12.
Bron 1 rebound off a triple double and great defense. Tough to win when he's playing like that.
it worries me a little that Okafor looks like he can't jump. but he can score in so many different ways that it might not matter.
seems like him & Noel could end up being perfect complements to one another. what one does not do well, the other does. vice versa too though... hopefully Okafor learns positioning and how to use his body to rebound the ball and defend better... and hopefully Noel learns how to control his movements and dribble the basketball.
https://twitter.com/DerekBodnerNBA/status/661607575943815169
No Mayo, MCW, or Henson for Milwaukee tonight; no Covington for Philly.
Cooney reporting the Sixers will add Phil Pressey with their roster exemption, which is probably why they kept Landry over Aldemir - to qualify for a 16th roster spot.
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/11/nba-fan-base-grammar-rankings-grammarly
fking rite! we dun come forth
91-87 L
Okafor continues to score efficiently and McConnell with another strong game 7/9/12 1to, but Canaan is just...idk
Brown had more faith in Pressey late in the 4th, whom they signed literally a few hours ago
I thought Thompson could develop into a solid NBA role player. Now I wouldn't be upset if he got cut. I think he's worse than James Anderson.
Pressey is a good pickup. Unfortunately, he can't shoot either. As impressive as McConnell has been for an undrafted rookie point guard, he does need to start taking (and making) some outside shots just to force opponents to guard him.
I usually loathe the classic "scrappy" point guard type players like McConnell, but damn I really like his game so far. I watched him at AZ a fair bit over the past few seasons with the other NBA prospects they had (Aaron Gordon, Hollis-Jefferson, Stanley Johnson) and he definitely can "run" a team. I'm thrilled to see that he can do so on the NBA level.
It was really nice seeing him knock down a 3 last night, and I was pleasantly surprised to see him take it to the rack a few times.
Defensively is where the issues are. He's just not big enough to defend some of the PG's in the league. He had to guard Middleton a few times last night and it was ugly just based on size alone.
It's crazy how bad this team misses Covington when he's out. Hell, they didn't win last year until after they signed him right? His size and floor-spacing are tough to replace, especially with Jah and Nerlens in the middle.
Yup. Without Covington the Sixers probably comes close to having the worst record in NBA history.
lakers vs nets tonight
someone has to win!
Boston is the big winner- seeing as they will have each of the next 3 years Nets first round picks.
How is BK still an NBA GM?
So the Nets traded away their 2014, 2016 and 2018 1st's as well as the right for Boston to take the Nets 2017 1st in a pick swap.
The oe put the team in line to make a 90M lux tax payment, and the team went on to lose 5 more games than the prior year (44) and then only 38 games the next year.
KG eventually netted them Thad. Pierce was lost 1 year late in FA.
http://espn.go.com/newyork/nba/story/_/id/9473403/kevin-garnett-paul-pierce-jason-terry-trade-brooklyn-nets-official
Quotes from BK:
"Honestly, did I think we could pull something like this off? No"
From the article:
"Garnett is 37 years old, while Pierce is 35. Critics wonder if both players will be able to stay healthy and productive throughout the course of a long season at their advanced ages."
"I hope people keep questioning KG and Paul Pierce's age, because I know that the type of warriors they are," King said. "The workload will not be as much as it's been in the past because of their teammates but I enjoy the fact that people keep questioning Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce. i know that they'll come out and prove them wrong, so I'm not concerned about that at all."
TJ was really fun to watch against the Bucks. I can't imagine he has a future as a piece given it has been two games, but he does not delay the development of Noel or Okafor. In fact, his particular style is great, in my opinion, for their games.
It sounds like Canaan will be only playing the two guard from now on.
I think if we shrink our rotation, get Stauskus and Covington playing well, then we have a competitive (not good, but competitive) team.
I am actually feeling good about what we could see this year.
tj jumper
bad job okafor lets moz get the o-reb and fouls him for and 1
moz misses the ft and love get the o-board
grant block out of bounds
mo williams bucket
tj 3, needs to keep hitting those
moz flops on okafor(no call), williams fouls okafor and 1
missed the ft
noel o-board
grant to the line
made both
timeout sixers
cle up 17-9
nice pass from holmes to okafor
mozgov dunk
sampson bailout jumper
hollis 3
charge taken by noel
hollis missed 3
thats a bullshit late call
cle turnover
timeout, down 24-18
grant to the line
missed both
hollis putback
lol McConnell continuing whatever this mystery is....wow what a finish to that quarter
tj to noel alley oop
tj steals thee in-bounds pass and hits a 3 at the buzzer
down 28-25 end of the 1st
7-0 run to end the quarter
canaan floater
grant takes a charge
nice drive by staukas
by the way okafor's defensive effort has been garbage tonight
noel jump hook off the glass
The Grant/Noel/Okafor lineup can be frustrating but very fun. "Menaces at the rim"
Agree on Okafor defense....brutal effort.
Stauskus having a tough time getting involved in my opinion.
noel over love
the cavs should really put okafor in a pick and roll every play with love on the other side
okafor misses a bunny
nice move by okafor there
horrible stauskas pass somehow ends up in a grant dunk
noel deflection
pressey missed 3
noel board
stauskas drive
I would like Stauskus to handle the ball a bit more. It is very extreme right now. When McConnell is off the floor, have him create.
noel block and pass to holmes for a dunk
timeout CLE
down 49-48
tj to noel, out of the timeout
up 50-49 at the half
13-2 run to end the half
When McConnell is in, I feel as though we get good shots on ~80% of offensive possessions.
When he is off the floor, that moves to 50% at best.
Enjoyable half.
okafor's defense on the last p/r by cle to end the half was hilarious
left the guy with the ball to box out before he shot it
https://twitter.com/DerekBodnerNBA/status/662806786043453440
noel misses 2 bunnies early in the half
7-0 run by CLE to start the half
timeout sixers
noel over love
stop passing up of open shots
nice move noel
stauskas 3
lebrons got 18 in the 3rd so far
noel jumper
stauskas 3
canaan to the line
made both
canaan to okafor
jefferson bucket
canaan 3 at the buzzer
down 81-73 end of the 3rd
Canaan had his best 90 seconds of the season right there. 8 point game.
okafor bucket
hollis 3
stauskas drive
Our "shooters" can't hit shit when it matters. Canaan, Stauskus, Thompson are brutal when we could build momentum.
okafor to the line
made both
lol canaan just chucked the ball at dellavedova
okafor jumper
lost 108-102
vs ORL tomorrow
I continue to be impressed by Okafor. He's making significant improvement on a game by game basis. Post game, face-up game, FT shooting...he is getting better at everything. The defense took a step back last game, but he has given no reason to think that he won't make the same jumps in progress on that end that he's been making on offense. I could not be happier with him, and he's only 19!
McConnell. I jumped the gun panning McConnell after a sub-par preseason and first game or so in season. Sometimes it's nice to be wrong. He has not only shown a real feel for the position (which I knew he had), but a level of talent to compete at the NBA level. He's managed to stabilize the PG position for this team.
no vuce tonight
the magic guards are really good at pinching down and getting deflections
grant and 1, made the ft
nice post move by okafor
sorry im at a loss for words at the moment
i just lost a money on this play
http://thebiglead.com/2015/11/07/arkansas-converts-do-or-die-4th-and-25-with-crazy-lateral-play-wins-on-2-point-conversion/#sthash.HnjJyPiN.uxfs&st_refDomain=t.co&st_refQuery=/oz8fUpQpRb
holmes putback
stauskas loves to ball watch and let his guy cut away from him
stauskas 3 in transition
stasuskas block
canaan deep 3
12-0 sixers run
holmes putback
some good minutes from holmes right now
down 51-44 at the half
stauskas has passed up some open 3's
stauskas 3
stauskas to holmes
jason smith and noel get into it
noel gets ejected
down 81-73 end of the 3rd
grant bailout 3
okafor to the line
missed both
This is quite frustrating. Watching these here Sixers.
canaan 3
his 6th
I used to kind of like Dedmon. He not-really-but-kind-of reminded me of Sammy.
Canaan on fire!
stauskas to the line
split them
dipo bucket
bad canaan shot misses
okafor defense!
stauskas 3
okafor to the line
made both
okafor is going to get called for 10 seconds on a ft this year
Dedmon pokes Jerami in his eye.
Heh, blogging again could be so much fun. I sure as hell miss it more than anything about this blog. That rush every night, that my boys were gonna play. Can't wait to get home and watch the game. Notations noted. Every. single. night. Good times indeed.
This ragtag bunch they currently trot out in year 3 of this so-called resurgence is really tough to get behind so passionately; cause half or probably more of them won't be here in 3 years if and when it does even start to matter again. I strongly emphasize 'if' in the previous sentence. That's rather ruthless and renegade-like (to be where we actually are in year 3 of this mess) of the head honchos for a fan as old as I am.
I want to feel like I did in '83. Euphoric.
Smitten.
Extraordinary.
Not this mundane, painstakingly and often excruciating display. Seriously.
Speed this shit up, whatever it is that you're ultimately doing. Here's to looking at you Sam.
6 pt game w/ 2 to go.
This wouldn't happen if he'd wear goggles like his uncle.
this is why I should be General Manager of the team...I have all these ideas
stauskas to the line
made both
Jahlil doesn't need to go to the dribble there. Just go up with it off the pass.
And he proceeds to brick two free throws.
Tobias block on Jah. Packed Okafor's methodical attempt.
Jah drive and spin and foul.
okafor to the line
missed both
holmes o-board
nice block by harris goes out of bounds
okafor back to the line
split them
down 99-94, 48 seconds left
duly noted hah
nice trap forces a steal but sampson gives it right back
they changed the charge to a blocking so hes goes to the line
split them
wood saves it but they are reviewing it
lost 105-97
bulls on monday
Just for good measure.
Fuck it. As someone so eloquently said.
justise winslow is really good
Is he re-think your stance on taking him at #3 good?
no
the pistons outscored Portland 41-11 in the 4th quarter tonight
@DerekBodnerNBA Nerlens Noel is out tonight. Sore wrist. Richaun Holmes starting in his place. #sixers.
really hope he didnt hurt it when he punched a wall after being ejected the other night
game is on NBATV for the out of towners
noah starting over Mirotic
nvm looks like they switched it up
okafor bites on pau and fouls him
made both
pau jumper
grant fouled
made both
okafor putback
butler 3
nice finish by grant
mirotic miss
okafor miss
pau miss, bull o-board and mis
great cut by stauskas
pau doing a good job on okafor early
a passed up open 3 is worse than a bad shot taken
noah out with a knee injury
19-2 run by the bulls have them up 31-16
wood to the line
split them
canaan bailout 3
STOP PASSING UP OPEN SHOTS
down 31-22 end of the first
no surprise when the bench came in the offense died
hollis 3
holmes to the line
split them
holmes to the line
split them
better move by okafor misses but wood putback
okafor got away with pau getting him deep
stauskas 3 and the sixers are up 1
timeout CHI
tj to wood
he keeps his dribble alive really well
wood jumper
okafor misses a bunny
grant to the line
split them
down 52-43 at the half
okafor not playing as bad as his line might say
bulls made a good bit of long 2's in the first half
see if it lasts
okafor to the line
split them
nice move by okafor
okafor bank shot
pretty much the same lineup that killed the offense in the first quarter is doing it again now
okafor and 1 on a jumper
made the ft
okafor over mirotic
okafor putback
gibson is too good to flop
down 76-62 end of the 3rd
okafor doing alot better job fighting for boards
he heads to the line
split them
okafor over gasol
okafor to the line
missed both
lost 111-88
tor on wed
come back soon noel and rc3
i didnt see the game but looks like Okafor 15 boards on poor shooting.. any color? are his FTs regressing ?
Shouldn't be too hard to figure out. He was playing without Noel and against good big men who forced him further outside and away from his comfort zone. I was impressed that he racked up all those rebounds at least. He hadn't been much of a rebounder to date but this game shows he can actively go after the boards when he has to.
FTs: Preseason he was 8-9
Over the first four Reg. Season games, he was 13-16 (81%)
Since then he is 11-21 (52%)
Total for regular season 62%
Yes, he is regressing.
How's this for an inspiring quote from the coach:
“The reality of it is we’ve had a lot of practice at [losing] the last couple of years. So, I think when you anticipate possibilities that we’re going through, we have a thing we call a premortem. If we’re going to die, how’s it going to be? We talk freely about it and what comes up in times like these is stay together and be clear about our purpose and the compass for this year’s team. It’s always the same old, same old.”
I have never heard such resignation to losing by any sports team in my life. It is unbelievable, even by the Sixers already very low standards.
yea, it's definitely unusual. but to be honest i'd rather read something like that than negativity. everyone knew what this season would be like so as a coaching staff you might as well be open about it with your players. i think that makes for a better environment over the long haul because otherwise it could get really toxic.
and whether or not he's a good coach is pretty hard to tell even in the 3rd year, but goddamn did they pick the perfect guy to handle this. he's unbelievable with the media. i don't know how he stays so positive.
To me, any sentence with the word premortem qualifies as negativity.
To me, his comments seem to carry an aggravated tone this year. Much more than in years past. No need to explain why that is the case.
Think about Brown last night, staring at Fred Hoiberg who takes over a solid Bulls roster. Brown has nothing to show from his 2+ years. He knows what he signed up for, but he is human and I am sure can only sustain so much.
I don't like the comments at this point in the rebuild.
Except I don't think this is what Brett Brown "actually" signed up for. I don't think for one second that his initial discussions with management revolved around, we're still going to be tanking our ass off and not even have 3/5ths of a core/starting unit assembled in year 3. In 3 years of drafting and opportunities to accumulate players and build a team, the guy on a good day has probably 2 starters - in YEAR 3!
He keeps getting asked to coach up player after player that doesn't stand a chance of not only being in the league but doesn't even remain with the Sixers more than a year. Just go back and review how many players he's been asked to devote time to that were jettisoned off, and came in with the slimmest of chances to begin with. His time and effort is too valuable to be wasted time and again like they've done him.
Here's a scrub Brett, coach him up and develop him. Oops, nevermind we're going to cut him. Here's two more scrubs Brett, develop them. Whoops, we're gonna let them go too. And over and over. That's the low of the lows from a coaching standpoint. It's such a waste - all in the name to find this diamond of a player who will likely ultimately end up your 11th or 12th guy on your best days.
I detect a fed up tone from him more this year too. I don't remember exactly but didn't he allude to some frustrations last year just a tad too by mentioning something about not having his high draft pick (Embiid) for the second year in a row? Seem to recall he made a slightly frustrated comment in regards to this I think.
And how could you not like the comments? It's about damn time somebody started calling it like it is instead of all this sunshine-y bullshit Hinkie gets in front of the mic and spews; all that talking in circles he's so adept at. I'm glad Brett is starting to show signs of pulling the curtain back - no matter how abominable and blameworthy the scene may be. Kudos to him. I'd love to see him cut it loose more with the verbal jabs as the season continues to spiral downward.
I don't think I see eye to eye with most of your points - but I agree with everything you wrote. It is a damn shame because I couldn't even tell you how Brown is as a coach. Excuses of injuries and talent explain poor results - one month of good defense is supposed to signal potential...its all nonsense. To be honest, I think the guy almost deserves to have 2 years with a decent roster after the shit he has gone through....but you can see the contradiction there.
Anyway - I understand the injuries but don't really care. I just want to see some damn wins with a respectable rotation.
Brown definitely made some comments last year, most notably how he didn't want to coach "nomads" and how winning mattered this (2015-16) year.
You make a good point that I should be happy that the coach is expressing frustration. Maybe Hinkie will hear some of it.
speaking of Sixer coaching quotes, here some great stuff from eddie jordan...
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/deep-sixer/Pre-Blazers.html#ZZ0qO27mVz15ejCi.99
----
Yesterday I asked both Brandon Roy and Nate McMillan about the Sixers. McMillan said: "There’s a lot of talent there. I haven’t really watched them a lot except for the last couple of days. They have been a team that we’ve had some problems with their speed and athleticism. I don’t know exactly what’s going on, but it’s a talented team."
Roy said: "They have good players. I was surprised by their record. I don’t even look at them, like, I don’t approach this game looking at their record, I approach it as, ‘Look, this team is good and they have talented players.'"
This morning at shootaround I asked Jordan if he agreed with Roy -- it seemed like a pretty innocent question -- that the Sixers are more talented than their record. Jordan said, "That's his opinion." And said nothing more.
noel out again for tonights game
Sounds like Karl is on his way out in Sac. If they fall in top 10 they keep their pick, correct? What happens to our pick swap rights if their pick ends up going to Chicago?
Pick swaps are only the 1st 2 years. If the pick goes to Chicago then no pick swap (not that they would be swapping with a pick outside of the top 10 anyway.) Kings probably figure they will be good enough that the pick swap does not come into play either of the years... but we'll see.
Amazing thing about the Sac trade is the Sixers have the right to swap picks with the Kings in the upcoming draft (if pick is in the top 10) AND they can do the same thing in the FOLLOWING draft!!
On top of that, they get ANOTHER first round pick from the Kings in 2018 (top 10 protected I think) but if it doesn't convey in '18 the Sixers get the pick in 2019 totally unprotected.
Plus they got Stauskas and Carl Landry. I don't know what on earth Divac was doing
Yes, this trade was a total win for the Sixers, even if Stauskas is a bum (which it looks like he will be--a 3 point shooter who can't make 3 point shots). The picks swaps by themselves are worth it. The Sixers likely need to take on salaries to get over the cap floor anyway. I guess Divac needed cap space with a win-now owner.
Yeah I don't know what to make of Stauskas to this point. He has not been able to make 3's with any consistency even though he's gotten his share of open looks.
On the flip side, I've been impressed/surprised by his ability to get to the rim so far. If he can get his 3's to start falling, it'll be huge for him, as it'll open up the driving lanes for himself and everyone else.
Without Stauskas making 3's and with Covington out and still on the mend it's been really ugly out there.
IIRC, Stauskas started off this summer for Canada shooting really poorly and then suddenly it clicked for him and his shot started falling. He needs that to happen and soon...
So back to our Philly/Boston asset debate, but let's throw in Cousins since we have a potential scenario where if SAC had to deal him, Sixers and BOS would be among the first teams they would call:
1) Would you want Cousins?
2) What would you offer?
3) Cam BOS make a better offer without including all the BKN picks?
I love his game but his attitude/personality can be a bit scary. In the end I would seriously consider this, and most likely make an offer of Okafor, lakers pick, Miami pick, maybe something else(OKC pick). I would not include Noel in this package over Okafor.
interesting question. i dont want anything to do with Cousins because he is a low-character guy. not worth it. but take that away and id probably give okafor and 1 of the later picks, probably both.
I would consider Okafor for Cousins straight up but def not include the Lakers pick too. Cousins has a higher ceiling talent wise but being a good teammate who guys want to play with is important prob more so in bball than any other sport. Okafor seems like a good dude so far.
Not ready to write off Cousins yet because he was drafted into one of the worst situations in sports, but at some point he has to take some accountability
noel back
covington back monday hopefully
russ in the post over tj
noel jumper
okafor block
grant miss
nice d by stauskas
tj to noel
noel looking good early
stauskas 3
then the power goes out for a second
wood putback
wood jumper
wood to the line
made both
hollis 3
up 24-18 end of the first
grant throw down
dont know if the stats back me up but when noel isnt on the floor but okafor is, grant also has to be on the floor with okafor
grant to the line
made both
stauskas 3
got work so i cant watch the 2nd half
defense has been pretty good just need to box out better
down 48-43 at the half
had the pleasure of watching Ben Simmons and can confirm he is a can't-miss prospect. Jamal Murray is also the real deal... i have an eye for prospects. was right about russell, Prozingis and evan turner to name a few.
Sixers get both of these guys along with Embiid and Saric next year and the hankie haters will crawl back into their holes.
I don't doubt your scouting props, but how can you say that you were right or wrong about Porzingis & Russel already, when they are only 9 or 10 games into their NBA career?
Also, many commenters on this website probably fit into your definition of a Hinkie hater, mainly because we disagree with the execution and duration of this rebuild. Not sure I understand your "crawling back into their hole" comment, when you have have had many good back and forth discussions about Hinkie's plan on this website.
lol. bad choice of words, got a bit carried away with over-competitive spirit and grandiosity, hope it does not offend.. but lets face it, civil as it may be, the fan base is split and there is no middle of the road... so we are eventually going to come to a point where one of us will be able to say 'told you so'. tired of being a team that fights over signing guys like mark blount, just tired.... nothing less than a brass ring for me.
I guess when it comes to prospecting, i don't get caught up with all the analysis and do believe I can just watch them play. i am pretty good with assessing yay or nay. not interested in the in-between. if a guy can't have his way not he college level, he won't have in impact in the NBA(this doesn't mean the opposite is true) Russell couldn't, and thats why you see a guy now who looks like a D-leaguer. of course this may change, but chauncey billups is the only guy I've ever seen may a stark turn around. Prozingis is clearly an impact player... how large of a sample do you need to see impact? this isn't potential anymore. he is the best player on the knicks.
and on prospects,.. i want Simmons and/or Murray. Labissiere and ingram NO !! !... Ingram is the next darius miles .. lets check back on this in May
I don't think its split right down the middle. I actually think the commenters here are the closest thing to a "middle ground".
I find people evaluate the moves fairly and, in the end, its subjective. I consider myself more supportive than average (on this website) but I am also really really disappointed with how the season is going.
I'm with ya man, all these hankie haters can STFU & GTFO. Most of em have no idea about asset collection. SMH. I too am passionately Pro-Hinkie, Pro-Process, and Prozingis. Let's partner up & identify all anti-Process insurgents on this site. If you see a suspicious post just reply #EXPOSED and I'll add em to the list.
Lol imagine them bein all mad once we get Bill Simmons and Dragon Binder.
yep you got it anominencial !
better to hate hinkie so much and root against what we do have! cut my nose to spite my face. Embiid, yep he's just a project anyway. most dominant college player in a decade? nope, he's just a regular guy that we can cross our fingers and hope he can play at the NBA level. but, eric snow, yeah he was a real piece, a true court general.
@spurs INJURY REPORT: Manu Ginobili (adductor strain) and Kawhi Leonard (upper respiratory infection) are both out for tonight’s Spurs-Sixers game.
noel right around lma to start
i miss the grant that can shoot
tj bucket
okafor to the line
made both
okafor jumper
sixers offense has been ok just missing open shots
call the foul when he gets hit not after he misses
building a house over here
2nd straight night giving up alot of 2nd chances
down 20-12 end of the 1st
noel to the line
split them
hollis 3
grant hit a 3!, 3-19 for the year
noel to the line
split them
nice move by okafor
okafor bailout jumper
canaan 3
grant to the line
made both
sampson putback at the buzzer
down 43-39 at the half
canaan over stauskas to start the 2nd half
noted
okafor putback
okafor puts back his miss
wood 3
down 76-60 end of the 3rd
hollis 3
the rockets are a mess
going to lose to a dirk, parsons and wes matthews less maverick team at home
nice moves by okafor and 1
made the ft
solid bounce back game by okafor after yesterdays game
okafor jumper
lead down to 8
timeout spurs
nice noel pass to okafor, down 6
force a shot clock violation
tj jumper down 4
spurs miss
canaan miss
spurs miss
sixers turnover
spurs bucket, down 6
turnover out of timeout
tj gets it back
okafor miss
lma miss
replaying who it went out on
sixers ball
tj turnover
noel steal
bad shot canaan
duncan bucket
down 8, 22 seconds left
sixers turnover
lost 92-83
vs DAL on monday
covington back tonight
im sure he will be on a minutes limit
noel miss jumper to start
good d by tj in the post
okafor travel
matthews miss
noel turnover
parsons and 1
made the ft
how hard is it to just throw the ball to okafor in the post
noel putback
turnovers killing them early
down 11-2
tj bailout jumper
kendall marshall is going to come back and be average and im going to think hes the greatest thing ever
hollis and 1
made the ft
covington to the line
split them
grant o-reb and is fouled
split them
harris bucket
nice move by okafor
felton at the buzzer
down 28-15 end of the 1st
8 turnovers
tj bailout
grant cant be the 3 when noel and okafor are on the floor together
okafor to the line
made both
taking way too long to get okafor the ball in the post
tj vs barea is going to be funny
noel steal and dunk
hollis 3
sampson to the line
split them
noel hook shot
T on dirk
canaan misses the ft
grant to the line
made both
hollis 3
down 49-44 at the half
17 turnovers
i have no clue how they are in this game
grant bucket
get this lineup off the floor
since stauskas forgot how to shoot, grant and tj cant shoot and noel is noel
its impossible for okafor to get a clean look(hes doing a bad job trying to get open)
hollis 3
tj jumper
nice to see noel took over thad's role of missing all the bunnies underneath
tj jumper, down 2
timeout DAL
cant wait til canaan stops playing when wroten and marshall come back
okafor putback and 1
made the ft
canaan 3
covington at the buzzer
down 68-65 end of the 3rd
nice move okafor
okafor block
tj 3
okafor around zaza
covington to the line
made both
5 on okafor
8:28 left
grant drive, up 1
d-will to the line
made both
grant and 1
missed the ft
noel to the line
split them
hollis to noel
up 2
dal turnover
5 minutes left
noel to the line
split them
dirk flop forces a grant foul
dirk fouled shooting heads to the line
made both, down 1 3:23 left
gotta get okafor the ball earlier
d-will jumper down 3
sixers turnover
dirk fouled
made both, down 5
tj to okafor, down 3
dirk 3, down 6
timeout sixers
canaan miss
felton miss
okafor bucket, down 4, 53 seconds left
matthews miss
grant miss
d-will fouled
made both down 6, 21 seconds left
hollis miss
lost 92-86
VS IND on Wednesday
Duke vs Kentucky tomorrow night
jamal murray on kentucky is one of the guys i want
Here’s my concern with this tank job: the fans will have to go through all of this losing, and watching of dreadful basketball, then a few of Hinkie’s picks work out and a few won’t, then the Sixers end up being a 47 win team and 4th seed as their ceiling, then we’re right back to where we started in the Iguodala era.
I see that as a very plausible scenario. Embiid will never be fully healthy; Saric got his minutes reduced in friggin’ Europe; Stauskas is a bum; Noel and Jalil are one way players; we’re not guaranteed the Lakers pick this year (Lakers currently 4th to last, one-half game ahead of Pelicans and Nets for 3rd to last). Hinkie’s drafting has been hit or miss.
Hinkie has set up a scenario where only the NBA finals in three years is an acceptable result. Anything less, and none of this was worth it.
@SharoneWright.
i agree that is a plausible scenario along with 47 wins. and if that plays out, we are in the same place we started with the Iguodala teams. you realize that you describe a pretty negative outcome across the board and still come to a place of 47 wins?
the difference with this team is that there is a lot of upside. on your player outlooks, as Eddie Jordan said, thats your opinion...
i see Embiid as coming back 100% and becoming meeting his star player Olajuown-like expectations. Saric being the best non-NBA pro in the World. Stauskas fitting in nicely in a more limited role. Jahil and Noel both have major roles on a championship team.... and Jahil can possibly get moved as he is showing significant value. the draft picks may not fall optimally but there is a good chance we get both and that lines up for drafting Simmons with the 1 or 2 pick and Jamal Murray with the #4or5. before you know it we have the most exciting team in the NBA
Sharone, I share some of your frustrations, but Saric getting his "minutes reduced in friggin Europe" is not one of them.
He's clearly playing for an old school coach who has a real problem with younger players getting minutes. He's currently 6th on the team in minutes behind a bunch of 26-29 year old players. At 21 years old, his Per/36 #'s lead the team in Pts (17.8) and Rebounds (10.6) while shooting 52% from the field and 46% from three point range. (small sample size, i know).
There are some concerns for sure, but I for one am pretty excited to see Saric when he comes over the summer.
Thanks for the replies, guys. Optimism is good.
Last night: 31 turnovers, 35 made shots.
Uggh, sounds like last night's game was the worst of the bunch so far this year. I (thankfully) didn't get to watch.
no zeller or Hairston for CHA
lin starting with kemba
McConnell, Stauskas, Grant, Covington, Okafor
if you are trying to win id start noel over okafor
but replace hollis with grant and that is the type of lineup i want with okafor
good, getting okafor the ball in the post early
bad, him not doing anything with it
grant dunk
covington to the line
made both
grant block
tj 3
lin bucket
okafor struggling with jefferson early
stauskas miss
batum miss
grant miss
batum charging foul
noel doesnt look healthy
as i say that he gets up and dunks an alley oop
nice move noel
its pretty funny how little respect grant's defender shows him when he sets the pick
down 30-19 end of the 1st
sissy jumper(for old times sake)
LOL, this cracked me up.
keep gunning spence
nice cut by noel
okafor and 1
made the ft
okafor over hawes
hollis 3 off the okafor double
when stauskas starts hitting shots its gonna be great
really? How do 'you' define great then?
he is missing wide open shots
those will start going down
down 62-41 at the half
nice cut by covington leads to a grant dunk
stauskas hit a 3!
stauskas another 3!
stauskas 3!
hollis 3
sampson to the line
made both
lead cut to 11
down 85-70 end of the 3rd
grant dunk!
covington and 1
made the ft
noel to the line
split them
grant drive
noel to the line
split them
walker miss
stauskas long 2
dug yourself too big a hole but good fight in the 2nd half
stauskas to the line
made both
what happens first, tj shoots a ft, sixers win or golden state loses?
add will covington hit a 3
okafor should watch tape on jefferson in the post and see how patient he is
lost 113-88
@ MIA tomorrow
Sam Hinkie can go suck a bag of dicks.
He must be a self-sucker then....
In seriousness, it is disrespectful to the fans for Hinkie to remain silent so long. I know, I know, it provides no competitive advantage for him to speak--it is not going to get us a win or improve our draft picks--but for cripes sake, this losing streak is abnormally bad. This year has been a step back by any measure. Give us something. Hand trucking Brett Brown out every game to describe this mess is so tiring.
I agree with Stan.
what happened?
Checkin the sports news and all I see is they lost another game.
good duck in by okafor
nik 3
bosh miss
stauskas block
okafor miss
https://vine.co/v/izzjhUYTq36
covington 3!
okafor rotation block!
covington looks great
up 28-16 end of the 1st
noel o-board and to the line
split them
grant ball movement for a stauskas 3
be nice if okafor could get a call
dragic looks a step slow
up 47-32 at the half
probably the best half of the year
A great half wasted. Have up 35 in the 3rd after only giving up 32 in the entire first half. And then they started the inadvisable intentional fouling despite having a 10 point lead.
Hinkie has the right idea in terms of rebuilding through amassing multiple high picks in a short time period. Unfortunately, he is too much of a zealot for his own good, and refusing to address how players don't develop when the roster is so devoid of skill and experience to where you can no longer execute. His roster is hurting Noel and Jah, and making it more likely they will not be part of the solution.
We also haven't come away with the best player in any of his drafts. Looks like Towns and Porzingis are going to be a lot better than Okafor. Getting to the point where if he doesn't get Simmons in 2016 it might be time to abandon ship
the challenge with the 76ers strategy, is you have to get the draft right... you have to pull the trigger on the right guy when he presents himself even the information is imperfect. ..as hard is that is, isn't that the entire point? to get the next franchise player? Hinkie has done a good job so far, but we messed up not drafting Porzingis.. 15 games blah blah .. the guy is a star... now... and its obvious.
Okafor is a nice player and will have a successful career, but its clear he has some limitations.
i dont understand why year after year I am able to call boom/bust players with essentially 100% accuracy, but the so called 'experts' continuously miss the mark. I called my friend on draft day with all the knicks idiot fans booing and told him I wish the Sixers took Porzingis and they got a star. what more do you want?
i wonder if he wanted to take Porzingis but was afraid of the public reaction. or if he just thought Okafor was better. either one isn't good.
Hinkie is many things, but "worried about public reaction" is not one of them.
i think with this last draft he had to have been aware of how much shit he would have taken if he took Porzingis. not sure it played into the decision to take Okafor, but you know it would have been really bad at the time
https://twitter.com/MaxRappaport/status/668853427594772480
https://twitter.com/SerenaWinters/status/668901751244718080
LOVE watching rubio play
starting lineup of doom
need hollis or cov instead of grant
okafor o-board and to the line
made both
stauskas to the line 3
made both
okafor takes it to towns and 1!(his 2nd)
missed the ft
rc3
canaan to the line
made both
noel and 1
made the ft
hollis 3
again
up 26-19 end of the 1st
noel stuffs wiggins at the rim
okafor is stronger than towns
okafor jumper(heat check?)
pissed off okafor is fun
call the foul when it happens not when he misses the shot
okafor putback!
up 52-46 at the half
19 for okafor at the half
i think stauskas is hurt
not starting the 2nd half
dont think he came back in after taking a elbow to the face
left knee pain
cant remember the last time noel hit a jumper
another lineup of doom
and MIN takes the lead
tj, canaan, grant, noel and okafor
spacing sucks
its pretty funny watching every big on MIN except KG get called for moving screens
canaan 3
okafor's defensive rotations arent good still but they are better than earlier in the year so at least he is showing progress
rough night for the refs(both sides)
great pass tj to covington
payne fouls out with 3:16 left in the 3rd
rc3 after tj pulls a rondo and passes up a layup
hollis 3
down 74-73 end of the 3rd
grant and 1
made the ft
rc3, good job by tj pushing
tj steal, MIN fouls
grant and hollis miss wide open 3's
good d by cov forces a turnover
starters = 0 threes
bench = 9 threes
canaan at pg lost them the lead at the end of the 1st half, dont stay with it for as long this time
hollis and 1
missed the ft
okafor fakes out towns and scores
lavine miss
timeout up 5
good play but canaan misses
grant o-board
grant to the line
split them
i have never seen them call that on the pg
grant 3 at the shot clock buzzer
hollis floater, up 5
wiggins and 1, hes on fire
made the ft, up 2
lol of course
grant blocks lavine
wiggins gets the board and dunk and foul
misses the ft
cov misses a 3
wiggins miss
grant miss, MIN ball but they are reviewing it
MIN ball
https://vine.co/v/izXv10HzUXw
wiggins fouled headed to the line
made both, down 2
tj missed runner
MIN(towns?) get away with a moving screen
martin 3
down 5 28 seconds left
canaan and cov both miss 3's
lavine fouled
made both
down 7, 12 seconds left
okafor pretty much not touching the ball during crunch time is on brown
lost 100-95
@BOS on WED
This team obviously is low on talent, but when there is a chance to coach out a win, Brown is just as deficient. Both of the last two games were winnable. Brown has done nothing to help the cause in either one.
And I'm getting a little sick of his snarky comments about how tough his life is coaching this team. Nobody was looking to hire Brown before the Sixers came along. Nobody. Shut up and coach.
+1. The 'woe is me' post game routine gets a little played out when the coaching has been just as poor as the talent on the floor. And not just these last two games, they've been in several more over this 0-15 stretch, but the only effective adjustments (particularly at halftime) have come from the opposing coaches.
The lineups have been puzzling - forcing the Grant/Noel/Okafor frontcourt for long stretches in close games despite the output being historically bad, putrid 3rd quarters,and going away from Okafor late in the game when he's the only productive offensive player on the team. I'd have more sympathy for him if the team was overachieving in terms of Pythag. W/L or if he didn't know what he was signing up for when he took the job.
Though to be fair, this is year 3 so he probably didn't know what he was signing up for.
couple things about the postgame comments last night:
1. Noel on being asked why he wasn't in the game during crunch time said, "I don't know, I'm not the coach."
2. and Brett Brown talking about how he doesn't like their offense when they just dump it to Okafor in the post. makes it sound like him not getting the ball is intentional because he prefers more movement? i didn't see postgame so maybe the quotes were different than they sound?
I watched the presser, and my interpretation of your number 2 was more a criticism of the movement of the other players when Jah had the ball. I don't think not getting him the ball was intentional. Just before that he said that at the end of the game "we tried to look for him, and they did a good job of pressuring us."
Nick Stauskas to get MRI today for knee pain. Didn't play in second half last night. When asked if it might be ligament damage, Sauce didn't answer.
@PompeyOnSixers Nik Stauskas has a left knee contusion. MRI was negative to any other injury.
Brian -
can we get a new thread? maybe something related to the 15 game losing streak, possibly breaking the record, and some of the ire coming out of the NBA community ?
Good article for NBA junkies.
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/14209124/is-small-ball-dominance-golden-state-blip-trend
The article doesn't mention the Sixers, but if it did, it would say that something like, "the Sixers are building their team in a manner the exact opposite of small ball."
yea i've thought about this so much. at first i thought maybe they could exploit an inefficiency in the way the rest of the league is trending. but i just don't see any way they can keep Okafor, Embiid, and Noel on the floor at the same time (if Embiid ever even plays). Noel would be fine coming off the bench but if those are 3 foundational pieces it's a problem. Even Okafor & Embiid together would be problematic. if Embiid proves he can play then there will 100% be a trade involving at least one of those 3.
If the goal is to have a dominant "big" team, then it is actually a good thing to have 3 bigs so you can have 2 on the floor all 48 minutes. And of the como's, likely Jah/Noel are the worst current and long term fit. But even that pairing will be a net positive with time and some actual NBA quality teammates on the perimeter. I think we will see that once Grant is benched in favor of Covington.
Don't look now, but the East may be catching up with the west. It is only 15 games in, but the East has a 39-33 edge in interconference games so far this year. This even includes the Sixers at 0-5 and Golden State at 4-0 in these games.
Miami and Indiana have played better than expected. The East's middle class has improved across the board, as there are only two teams more than 2 games below .500. The west has taken a step back, with Houston and the Clippers underperformance being key factors.
The West is still the better conference until proven otherwise, but perhaps the gap is closing.
I'll put up a new post over the long weekend if I can remember. Fun fact, in Donald Sterling's 33 years of ownership, the Clippers lost 60+ games in a season 8 times. Josh Harris will be 3 for 5 after this season. Exciting stuff. Almost as exciting as Noel's late-season push proving to be a mirage (he's back to being an extreme offensive liability). Also exciting is 5 of the Sixers top 7 salaries probably never seeing the floor for them this season. I have no idea how you guys can muster the energy to talk about this sham.
Thank you. The struggle is real (frustrating).
Some random observations:
HardwoodParoxysm made a good reference for the Okafor vs Towns matchup the other night. It was certainly encouraging - but remember how Boogie dominates Anthony Davis every time they matchup. I am not comparing the two duos as similar - but I liked the reference.
Porzingis is such an interesting development. I think logical fans will appreciate each rookie for who he is (and not jump into comparisons and who is better yet). Needless to say, Hinkie would have gotten crushed for drafting him on draft day (not that I think he cares) but may get crushed for NOT picking him (and still getting a damn good player). Also really interesting to think how zoned in the Thunder were on KP in the prior draft. Imagine he had stayed eligible and they took him? Wow.
It is sad that Wroten is viewed as a savior upon his comeback (I am included in this sad optimism). I dont want to look back to what I wrote about him last year.
We likely see some roster moves on the back of Wroten and Marshalls arrival. Im sure Wood goes to the DLeague, but do we release someone?
I seriously think if Stauskus was hitting >40% from 3 - we would have won at least 3 games already. I think he has been such a disappointment that its has caused significant collateral damage.
I don't share your optimism on Okafor. Al Jefferson might be his ceiling.
I am fairly confident Jefferson is the floor for Okafor. He is 19 years old and has largely dominated his defender throughout the season. His struggles have come from incredibly athletic defenders (Thunder and Jazz) - and he actually improves throughout the game playing those guys.
His defensive struggles are absolutely a concern, but also appear more "effort" related to me than anything. He actually makes some very nice plays when he is in position.
I am not blinde to his flaws (especially in this era of hoops) - but in my opinion his ceiling is much greater than Al Jefferson. And when you consider his ability to hit 15 foot jumpers AND take his man off the dribble - he can add something very unique if surrounded by shooters.
i view marhsall more as a "savior" than wroten
the bottom line with Okafor for me is that he WILL reach his ceiling, whatever that is... this guy is a worker and has the best attitude I've seen in a long time.
i think the Al Jeff comparison is off. thats what the haters on the lakers blog say because they drafted the second coming of Marc Macon. its was a comparison thrown around by pundits on draft day that has stuck.
Agree - although this also makes me nervous. McConnell has done a lot of what Marshall will bring....but I am hoping he can fill in where TJ is obviously not polished.
i think Marshall is a better and more willing shooter which will help open up things
Up 7 at the half despite the usual "WOW THAT WAS BAD" plays but less turnovers and solid defense.
I know what typically happens from here so I will break out the booze now.
Up 7 at the half despite the usual "WOW THAT WAS BAD" plays but less turnovers and solid defense.
I know what typically happens from here so I will break out the booze now.
just got in
hollis 3
okafor to the line
made both
okafor bank
up 11, 8 mins left
noel to hollis
amir to sullinger
up 9, 6 mins left
timeout sixers
cov blocked
et travel
thomas to the line
made both
crowder to the line
missed both
tj missed jumper
crowder 3
sullinger jumper, up 2
okafor and 1!
made the ft
et miss
canaan miss
timeout BOS
et to the line
made both
canaan tunover
thomas bucket
up 1, timeout
Bradley was mugging hollis which didnt called
cov turnover
crowder 3
down 2, 38 seconds left
noel lets a layup go right through his hands
sixers force a turnover and call timeout(he shouldnt of called it, think they had numbers)
11 seconds left
this shit is un fucking real
pressey miss
thomas to the line
made both
lost 84-80
shouldnt of called timeout
ugh
yea he really shouldnt of called timeout
https://twitter.com/SethPartnow/status/669710910957613056
This is unbelievable. So frustrating to watch. I hate that when these games get close, Brown does not seem have any answers. That timeout was bad. Three games in a row his coaching has played a key role in losing a winnable game.
I'm not sure what is going on with Noel this year but he has been awful as of late. His defense has been weak and complacent. All progress made in his offense is a distant memory, as he has zero confidence in any single move. And of course is horrible hands are back. I could handle the offensive problems, but there is no excuse for his lack of intensity on D. How often does he still completely lose his man getting back on D?
I'm just pissed.
I agree with you. Noel almost looks hurt to me - walking/running gingerly and not elevating as much on defense.
His offensive game has regressed. I think not having Ish Smith getting him easy buckets hurts his confidence (which he really needs). And not getting any type of calls hurt his confidence even more. He shouldn't be a high usage player at this point, but getting him buckets is important to keep him engaged in all segments of the game.
Can Kendall Marshall really close games?
"Can Kendall Marshall really close games?"
yes
In no way do I mean this in a 'he-he i told you" type of way, but I find much solace in you guys that I consider to be such stout believers finally getting pissed.
Welcome to the party! Not much fun at this party, but welcome nonetheless.
I thought of you when I read this Matt Moore quote, this one about sums it up best:
"But they've gone from admirable junk pile to straight garbage."
Not sure where any "I told you so", would come from. I still support what the Sixers are doing, I just wish I could watch a better product this year. They've been unlucky. So be it. But I still feel it's the right strategy.
I am irritated by how Brown has been coaching and by how players like Noel appear to be regressing. But don't confuse my posts with some change in position on the overall strategy. Far from it.
Didn't really come from anywhere, just didn't want the post to be misconstrued when I stated it's nice to see some frustration from what I have considered to be Hinkieites by way of believing in this "shot in the dark" (tk doesn't agree with that assessment) so-called strategy.
We had a discussion last year around October on here where, at the time, you stood on firm footing that, "this comes down to one thing - Embiid", - those were pretty much your exact words. I disagreed adamantly with that position. I would surmise that you don't feel it's quite that simple anymore. Just like you felt it was going to be so simple on draft night and "we'd draft our starting backcourt tonight".
It's just kind of humorous that some of the commenters here that are genuine supporters are finally reaching what I'd call a boiling point, which myself and probably one or two others (Brian, Dollar Bill) was at from almost the beginning of this charade and took some heat from the supporters for 'not giving it enough time' and 'you can't judge the process, just the results'.
Well, it seems some of the results are finally starting to show themselves ala Noel, and Brown to a lesser degree (I don't really place much blame on him, it's long been a shit show and shit results are to be expected even from this bit-too-early pumped up coach). No backcourt or wings that are above average.
It started out as a joke, has long been a joke, and looks to continue to be a joke for the foreseeable future. It's just nice that you guys are finally reaching certain levels of frustration with this mess and not coming on here and mightily trying to part the clouds and propagate rays of sunshine on every thing this regime does. Refreshing, in a sense. Cause usually it's been excuse after excuse from the supporters, which finally seem to be running out.
You are still trying to keep this "us vs. them" narrative alive on who supports the rebuild (Hinkie) and who doesn't, huh? I really would prefer to not participate in that discussion any longer. I like what they are doing - it is just rough to go through as a fan. If Embiid never plays, that ill be an unfortunate blow to this team, but I still feel it was the right pick. At the end of the day, I want to see this team get better. I still believe this is the right path to achieve the ultimate goal of acquiring an elite talent (which is what this plan is about). Would I have signed a competent PG? Sure I would have. They didn't. I still very much support this strategy, and never thought it would be simple. So you'll have to look elsewhere for support. I flatly disagree with most of your positions regarding this team. That's OK. We can still have a discussion.
Last point, I am not sure why you hold it against me that that I thought they would draft Russell, and they did not. 1) they had no chance, 2) so did 90% of the contributors to this blog. You act like it was some absurd prediction I made, and I should be held accountable because it never happened. Also, never did I say/think that this process would be "so simple". Get over it. I never felt that way, despite how many times you tell yourself that I did. I have always considered that this plan may not work. "Life intervenes", as David Thorpe recently commented (referring to Embiid and incidents like Okafor over the weekend). It does. But this re-build is far from over, despite your premature declarations.
Please disregard the redundancies in my post. I twice wrote a bout the process not being "simple". I have kids and don't always have time to complete a thought before having to run off and complete later.
thanks, Six.
I can only speak for myself ... at some point , i may certainly concede the plan was a failure. . but i will never believe it was the wrong approach... ill have to see where we are after Embiid, Saric, any trades and the 2016 draft. i still think we have 1 transcendental star and 1 really good player in our pocket, + potentially Ben Simmons.
this doesnt look good at all
https://twitter.com/TMZ/status/669966871857205248
lol at saying kobe is a good vet for a rookie to have around
Canaan starting for McConnell tonight. Grant, Covington, Okafor and Noel
@preston76 #Sixers Nerlens Noel is a late scratch & will not play tonight due to rt. knee soreness. Canaan, Grant, Covington, Sampson, Okafor to start.
okafor misses a bunny
would try to get harden involved in many p/r as possible
okafor jumper
nice pass from okafor out of the post
cov to the line
made both
holmes dunk
okafor to the line
split them
stauskas back
okafor putback
god i wish grant could shoot
stauskas to the line
split them
down 30-19 end of the 1st
http://www.csnphilly.com/basketball-philadelphia-76ers/witness-gun-pulled-jahlil-okafor-october-old-city-altercation
just read this intead of watching the game
grant 3!
cov to the line
made both
nice run by the sixers cuts the lead to 6
rc3
down 56-49 at the half
missing the rest of the game
defense hasnt been as bad as it might seem
There'll be more Okafor night club incidents than wins this season.
Hollis is so bad. On so many levels. I honestly can't wait until he is gone. The only thing he hits less than his wide-open 3's are his wide-open layups.
Overall this team has been playing much better over the last 4 games. Brown cost them two with his bad coaching, but they have been in these games. Covington getting back to form will be a huge boost. Noel going out for an extended period could really hurt.
And the guy has a stretch of 5 good games to fool you into thinking that he can be a capable NBA player. That guy makes me miss James Anderson.
http://www.csnphilly.com/basketball-philadelphia-76ers/witness-gun-pulled-jahlil-okafor-october-old-city-altercation
This kid might need to put down the bottle. Or else he's going to get put down first.
this small stuff keeps piling up. It's not very encouraging
http://mobile.philly.com/blogs/?wss=/philly/blogs/sports/sixers/&id=357904171&
What concerns me most, is all this is happening on the heels of the Embiid fiasco last year, when the organization did a horrendous job supervising his rehab on/off the court. He basically did what he wanted and is out an extra year because of it. Now Okafor has three incidents (two very serious ones) over the first two months of his first season. The team is seemingly unconcerned.
no noel tonight
z-bo will try to play for MEM
okafor misses trying to shoot over gasol
okafor on z-bo to start
nice d by grant on gasol
0-9 to start
make it 1-10
d has been good
okafor bucket
TJ SHOOTING A FT
THIS IS NOT A DRILL
he missed it
offense is a mess
canaan 3
grant to the line
made both
down 21-13 end of the 1st
tony allen has covington in a vice
going to be a long night
okafor steal
canaan 3
okafor cant push gasol around so it isnt going well for him in the post
okafor in late transition
3 fouls on okafor
hes probably done for the half
tj 3
kobe announced hes retiring via poem?
http://www.theplayerstribune.com/dear-basketball/
hollis steal
sauce in transition
down 37-31 at the half
first to 60 wins!
I am honestly shocked that Stauskus has been so bad. I know shooters get cold, but he cannot shake it for the life of him.
the only thing i can think of is that he hasnt been healthy for a consistent period of time all year but yea its weird
Frankly, I will give him all season to figure it out. I refuse to believe he won't be a valuable NBA shooter somewhere.
Frankly, I will give him all season to figure it out. I refuse to believe he won't be a valuable NBA shooter somewhere.
I have theory: he isn't a good NBA player. He couldn't get on the floor for the Kings. He hasn't been good through 18 games and a preseason here. That is a big enough sample size for me.
covington has been great at getting in passing lanes
grant 3!
canaan 3
3pt shooting keeping them around
sampson 3
defense has been FANTASTIC
rc3
tied at 51
That sequence where Tj dove, Covington dove, Canaan dove (and missed), and Jakarr ripped the ball for a fast break dunk was pretty impressive for this team.
tj to grant alley oop!
grant and 1!
made the ft
sauce 3
hollis 3
another hollis 3
up 67-64 end of the 3rd
keep it up
okafor to the line
split them
leaving pressey in too long
sixers steal
pressey to the line
made both
chalmers 3
tie game
8:26 left
canaan bailout 3
canaan to the line
made both
grant takes a charge
canaan miss
z-bo tips in his miss
grant to the line
split them
barnes and 1
made the ft
tj miss
z-bo jumper
down 1, 5:26 left
timeout
need to take okafor out
LOL here we go again.
right on schedule
13-0 run for MEM
down 9
okafor to the line
made both
green 3
down 10
2:22 left, probably the dagger
rc contested 3
mem miss
pressey miss
barnes to the line
missed both
canaan miss
okafor bucket
down 5
gasol to the line
split them
down 6, 38 secs left
cov shot blocked
conley to the line
made both
hollis miss
lost 92-84
VS the lakers on TUE
new thread please
Brian,
the bloggers are pining for a new thread, man.
At this point he should just turn it over to Sixersfan and give him some control to make threads.
The lotto thread has only 227 comments. you guys could post there for now
uhm, no please. make more sense for him to start his own blog then
Okafor has been a dumpster fire against big defenders in past two games (Gasol/Randolph + Hibbert).
Jeremy Grant is getting better and better on defense. He has turned around after that ugly preseason and start to the year.
Whistles haven't been to friendly tonight. Down 9 with 3:27 left in the half.
just got in
please hang on
Kobe helped us a lot to say the least...
hollis 3
up 11, 2 mins left
russel bucket
okafor and 1
missed it
a win!!!!!!!!!!!
Feels good to have that off the back. Considering we have been winning by over 5 in the 4th in 6 consecutive games?
Covington is a real player.
Grant has really settled into his role after that ugly start.
Noel looked good tonight.
Lakers are gonna get Simmons
its great that we didn't set the 0-19 record... but at the same time, it figures the Sixers can't even tank properly... after all this, we beat the one team that we don't want to beat... neck and neck with the Lakeshow for the bottom.
Agreed. Hinkie has set up a fan experience where wins are joyless.
The only player I saw on the Lakers was Jordan Clarkson. If Kobe continues to play at this level, there's no way the Lakers climb out of the bottom 3, and I also I think the Sixers will pass them this year.
@tmoore76ers #Sixers suspend Jahlil Okafor for 2 games, effective immediately.
yeah full video came out.
http://www.tmz.com/2015/12/02/jahlil-okafor-fight-second-video-boston/
He'll be lighter in the pocket after this one.
Those who said the Lakers pick may end up in the 10-15 range could very well turn out right. I didn't see the game but LA must really be awful to lose to this bum ass team.
Lakers keep the pick this year, retool over the summer, and come back without Byron Scott and with a modern, rational offense that's not predicated on Kobe chucking everything he gets his hands on. That's not an unlikely scenario.
Players taken in the last 4 drafts that I would trade everyone on our roster and all of our draft picks for:
1. Anthony Davis
2. Andre Drummond
3. Kristaps Porzingas
4. Andrew Wiggins
5. Giannis Antetokounmpo
What about Towns?
Yes, him too. I's probably add Beal and Lilliard as well.
Seeing Porzingas play reminds of the Sixers taking Evan Turner over Derrick Favors and Paul George.
Just got home from MSG. Holy crap that was tough to watch. Sadly, the Sixers bring their opponents down to their level often.
Porzingis looked like the best guy on the floor.
Covington had an off game but was still a noticeable player on the court (sadly that is a criteria).
Jerian Grant was effective but reminded me so much of how Jerami Grant is effective for us, looks great but you question how consistent that can be.
Simply put, we live and die by the three. Which means we live and die by: Covington, Canaan, Thompson, and Stauskus...
Any of you guys know why Jakarr Sampson started tonight over Nik Stauskas?
Stauskus has been playing really poor defense most of the season. Given that his shot hasn't been consistent....
Jakarr has also looked like a competent NBA player in the last 6 games or so.
If we get the # 2 or 3 pick this year what do you think we would offer for #1? I hope they know they need Simmons at this point
How does everyone love this guy SOOO much without any idea if he can shoot. I get he will be a solid pro - but he is that far ahead of the rest of the pack?
Totally, totally agree. Wanted to say almost the exact same thing when I saw this comment this morning. I really don't get the infatuation with the kid at this point. Is that subject to change by March? Maybe. But I don't see what all the slobfest is about thus far.
I think in his case, the fact that he can't shoot makes him more impressive. Teams know exactly how he'll beat them and then he goes out there and does it that way anyway scoring 40 in the paint. I'm far from sold on him as the number one with how early it is, but he'd be my pick right now because of his passing and the physical tools.
Eh, but that was against North Florida Ospreys whose tallest player was around 6'7/6'8. He didn't fare too well vs the only Power 5 team he's faced so far. Agree on his passing and physical tools, I just don't see transcendent star exuding from the kid yet.
Yeah, that's a good point too. I've never even heard of that school. I didn't see the game, just looked at the shot chart and watched some highlights. I know you follow college hoops some, who do you like so far from this class?
Early as hell, call me crazy, but Kris Dunn so far. I despise this teenager craze.
Dislike it exponentially, for many reasons. Some that have already and are currently showing themselves.
And two years ago, I mentioned I'd like Wiggins and Justin Jackson from North Carolina (if he came out after his freshman year).
Well, Jackson is still very very intriguing but sort of under the radar for me. I like him. He may bust, but I like him at this point nonetheless.
And Dunn, whew!
I think i can answer that for you. Ben Simmons is the #1 pick with a bullet. it isn't close. watch 1 or 2 games for yourself. file this post away and lets come back to it in a few months. or file the one i posted 4 weeks ago saying the same thing. all of the 'experts' can/will engage in mental masturbation for the next 7 months, and love to hedge their viewpoints so no matter the outcome , they claim they told you so.
I've seen every player play that are considered to be top tier:
Labisserie
Ingram
bender
brown
murray
Dunn
None compare to Simmons. so unless someone comes out of nowhere from outside this list, he is the #1 pick .
I respect your conviction. And I respect others that are making similar claims. My concern is less about him being the consensus #1 versus how good he will actually be.
I think it is interesting this year - Okafor's numbers probably would have put him atop ROY rankings in past 2 years? (MCW + Wiggins)
But Towns and Porzingis are so damn good he is levels away. This draft looks very deep upon first impressions - a lot of these guys taken in the lotto definitely belong.
Phil Pressey waived
should mean wroten and marshall are back
Bill Simmons called Durant being better than Oden, at the time said he was going to wind up being the best scorer in the NBA. now he's saying Ben Simmons is the best prospect since Durant. he's not right all the time but think I trust his opinion on hoops.
just got in
looks like im missing a 3pt fest
nelson bucket
tie game
1:26 left
bad possesion ends in a canaan miss
nelson to gallo
cov turnover
36 secs left
gallo miss but faried gets the board and is fouled
split them
down 3
20 secs let
decent look for cov but he misses
foye to the line
made both, down 5
lost 108-105
spurs on monday
BB makes some incredibly questionable lineups for the last 3 minutes of games.
Wroten back and doesn't look like he has lost his quickness. I would chalk up his turnovers to "rustyness", but honestly he looked like the same game we saw last year! (In all honesty, he can penetrate better than anyone else we have)
Grant played well.
Noel stone hands bit us in the back. I really hope this knee issue goes away....he does not have spring and its taking him from elite defensive player to solid defensive player.
TJ should continue as our backup PG. Canaan should play combo guard (but not handle any primary PG duties).
Stauskus played very well offensively.
It seems like you need 3-4 starters and a solid rotation of players on your team to be good shooters to have a contending team.
It's nice to see Turnover Tony back to spice up the guard rotation.
I've always been a pretty casual fan but my interest level has hit a new low. At this point it's safe to say that Hinkie has discovered 1 legitimate rotation player in 3 years of rummaging through the league recycling bin (and Cov will be long gone or overpaid by the time this team is relevant). Hinkie's batting average is around 1/60, which I imagine puts him at or near the bottom of the league, considering teams like Miami unearthed players like Whiteside and Johnson in that span, without having the luxury of using 2/3rds of their rosters to hold open court tryouts for 3 seasons while their teams are setting historical losing records. Any "asset" acquisition has been based on dumping middling players and renting out vast amounts of unused cap space to acquire future middling draft picks at the expense of keeping the team bad. Hardly a coup.
On the draft front, 5 high draft picks have yielded 2 limited one-way players who don't fit together and are both light years away from being linchpins on any sort of a contender. The only remaining endorsement of the strategy is "I didn't like how Stefanski and Doug Collins ran things", which has always been a comically bad and non-sequitur argument.
Brown blows as a coach.
The players blow at basketball.
Hinkie blows as a talent evaluator.
The funny thing is, this can still work. One of the picks this summer could very well turn out to be a star down the line. In theory and with willing ownership, a team can keep bottoming out and continue getting super high draft picks until one finally hits. This begs the question however: is this what you would call skilled team building? I would call it a blind squirrel finding a nut. This isn't year 3 of a rebuild, this is year 1.
Your last point hit it on the head. Zach Lowe's article mentioned it as well. The plan will eventually work - the way you speed it up is luck and/or proper player evaluation. Luck hasn't been on our side. Player evaluation is coming into question as well.
I am a bit more optimistic on potential role players within the system - I just don't think role players matter much now (for obvious reasons).
I honestly think having a competent point guard would mean Jerami Grant, Isiah Canaan, and others would look far better. I believe a big problem is guys being ask/told/tested to do WAY too much. Even Noel posting up his defenders is such a questionable strategy. He has games where he goes 3/5 on post-ups - but it doesn't look much different than those he goes 1/8. His awkward shot sometimes falls - and I know you need to give young guys chances - but I don't see intelligence behind "Giving him chances to succeed"
If Covington can run into spots to be a wing shooter. And not try to dribble unless having a WIDE open lane.
If Canaan only played OFF the damn ball. He started 5/5 for three and reminded me why he looked good on the Rockets.
If Grant put his effort in on defense and was an athletic cutter who continued to work on his driving game.
It goes on and on.
I understand BB wants to develop these guys to play next to each other - or develop guys to be able to finish games. At some point you have to go with what works and it would be helpful if he did that in the last 2 minutes.
I am frustrated with the roster construction and hoping Kendall Marshall can exceed my expectations and result in more simplified roles.
He really fucked up when he drafted Okafor over Porzingis. Porzingis is going to be a top 10 NBA player in a few years.
My guess is that Hinkie took Okafor because he was the safer player.
But I don't get why Okafor is seen as a bust when he's played well this season. I still think he's going to be a future all star.
When it comes to his drafting Hinkie is nothing special. I thought he was the type of guy that would go out and get long athletic players. He passed up on Giannis, Gobert, and Porzingis.
Since when has he made the safer move?
"Hinkie blows as a talent evaluator"
other than Okafor > Prozingis, what other mistake did he make as a talent evaluator? what other pick did he miss on?
Question wasn't directed at me but I'd say he has some questionable decisions - mostly in what he didn't do in free agency.
The draft is the most black and white way to grade "talent evaluation". I think MCW was a fine pick at 11 and he might turn that into a very valuable pick this year. Yes I would love if we had Greak Freak and Gobert on the floor but I can't fault him a ton for those - many other GMs missed on those guys and we don't have anyone with a 1.000 batting average.
Not signing Ish was questionable to me. Maybe he really didn't want to play here?