If Russell is available and we do NOT draft him, I will lose significant confidence in the "strategy". That said, I'd be willing to wager a sizeable chunk of money that he is the pick if available.
Lots of pre-draft activity with Vonleh, Lamb, Batum on the move. I imagine its only a matter of time before we are involved - lets hope it is a player and not an asset.
If we take D Russell, I want the second part of my two piece summer dream:
Danny Green.
Lots to discuss tomorrow. But I think taking Russell creates an entirely new dynamic. He can steal games with his skillset. This increases the likelihood of adding REAL players around him.
If the WCS rumors are true, he is dropping like a rock. Word is that He is going to need foot surgery in the next year or two to clean out a previous injury.
Karl wants him out. Guess they think theyll look dumber firing Karl at this point than just moving on from Cousins. It's what happens when you are a shit organization and your owner meddles into basketball ops
On another note, how much of a pain in the ass is George Karl? Does everyone still think he's a good coach?
After having watched MCDUBfigurejax, Furkan Aldimir and Isaiah Canaan, I don't know why I don't have confidence in Acquisition Chief Sam Hinkie.
Tonight the Master of Winter Disasters will outsmart the rest of the league's masterminds according to his fervent contingent of boosters, including his dogs, Sad Sack and Sunburn, leaving only victories and playoffs participation and championships between himself and Springfield, Massachusetts. This started in May of 2013.
Just heard on radio moments ago, according to Chris Broussard, agents are telling the Sixers not to draft their clients.
~~~~~
Sleeper picks:
1. George Mason
2. Austin Peay
3. Harvey Mudd
4. Oral Roberts
5. Bob Jones
Don't like Russell, especially after Holiday, Turner and Carter-Williams. Intrigued by the Flyin' Latvian (could be a player in a few year. I'd trade down to get 2 in 1st, Kaminsky and another. Sixers gotta stockpile talent. An Ohio State guard is an Ohio State guard, even though Bilas calls him a passing "savant." Please.
I'm so numb to this played-out GM of ours and his basically no-plan shot in the dark approach that I don't even have any expectations or know what to expect tonight. Two years ago I felt this path was just gonna lead to 2 years away from being 2 years away and that's probably giving it too much credit at this point.
I do like D'Angelo Russell and particularly his vision and passing prowess, but I just don't see him being this needle-mover for say the next 2-3 years. Where I'm coming from with these feelings are, we had a so-so guard that didn't have trouble passing and with other things in MCW and he wasn't necessarily doing any needle-moving either. He was a stat-stuffer that couldn't shoot whereas Russell may be a better shooter but not so much of a stat sheet stuffer.
There's nothing but shit surrounding whomever they add it won't make much of a difference. Ain't no free agents of significance coming to this sad sack franchise either. They're just as far away from this hyped up 'contention' as they were the day Hinkie's ass got hired. Fuck him and the horse Harris let him ride in on.
I do hope they can snag Olivier Hanlan in the 2nd round though. I really like that kid. Rakeem Christman would be nice late too so I don't have to witness Henry Sims tired game.
If there's all this shuffling deck chairs by way of a bunch of wheeling and dealing tonight, it will be so exasperating and inexcusable and only add to my narrative, sadly.
That's your heart talking. They're going to add at least one big man in free agency, probably Love or LMA. Even Byron Scott won't be able to coach them to the bottom.
OK, just like commenters told me you don't take Draymond Green 16th back in 2012 like I pined for.
I never understand that just because the "masses" say that this guy is "better" than that guy before they ever play a second in the league, so many are quick to fall in line with that thinking. Why are you and everyone else so sure that Jahlil is actually the "best" player available? You or no one else can be at this point. See how Winslow is impacting the league in 3 years versus Okafor. Eh, I feel like I'm having the Turner vs Meeks debate all over again. Oh well.
Well, if I was intentionally trying to lose, I wouldn't have finished with the 3rd-worst record in consecutive years. But I wouldn't have tanked like this for two consecutive years, so it's a moot point. i would've never been in this position in the first place, and my "rebuild" would be further along than square one heading into season three, and that's exactly where Hinkie is. No star on the roster, no star from this draft, the only real future asset(s) being their own picks because the Lakers/Heat picks aren't going to amount to anything. No objective observer can say Hinkie's plan has been anything more than an abject failure to this point.
Could tonight be a resemblance of the start of the turn when the hordes of commenters finally realized Evan Turner was a true piece of shit? Only now their blind faith in Hinkie is crushed?
Eh, if you're still sucking on the Hinkie teet nothing is going to pull you off at this point. He'll eventually get fired, most likely by the next owner of the franchise, and whoever comes in will probably quickly turn the team around, then the Hinkie followers will come out of the woodwork and say it's all because of the years of hard work Hinkie put it.
So the most intrigue tonight holds. How many meaningless trades will Hinkie pull off in the second round? And which pick will refuse to sign one of the BS contracts Hinkie tries to hand out to second rounders?
Say that Embiid is semi-healthy this year, we do keep Okafor, are we still quote-unquote tanking again for another year? Like losing but not trying to lose or whatever it is that we've done for the last two years? Don't we still try to line the Hinkster up to, at some point, get his ever-elusive star?
@ESPNSteinLine ESPN sources say Milwaukee sends 2017 first-round pick via the Clippers and the 46th pick in tonight's second round to Toronto for Vasquez
OK, that makes sense. So why did it seem like you were defending Sam taking the so-called BPA and asking me what I would have done when you don't even agree that Jahlil is the BPA?
Gotcha. So since your views (and mine) don't align with Hinkie's do you still place belief in what he's doing? Would you say this is a case of blind faith?
I guess I just don't get it, this has to simply be blind faith. You think that Hezonja has a better chance to be a star than Okafor but you're not in disagreement with what this guy did tonight? How can that be?
So I am (perhaps was) a Hinkie supporter...but the "Smartest guy in the room" would know he is hurting value of his assets when he has too many of them that they cna't showcase talent.
I'm disappointed that we didn't get Russell. But I can't really argue with taking the player they felt was the best available. At this point I just want good news on Embiid.
I believe there will be a trade at some point, but there is time to figure that out.
Those young buck Sixers fans in the stands look like just as much of a clown as Hinkie by wearing those corny shirts that say Trust The Process and some other small font up under it with Sam's mugshot on it. He's made them look like more of a fool than they may have already been.
The sky isn't falling and the Sixers picked up a player who should help immediately, but I can't see why anyone should be genuinely happy about the state of affairs. At least I hope the uncertainty about Embiid coupled with the drafting of Okafor should quell any remaining illusions among those who were thinking that Embiid might develop into the next Hakeem Olajuwon.
I don't see how anyone can be happy about Hinkie drafting another Euro stash big man at #35 and flipping him for two future second rounders. If a fan hasn't grown tired of that kind of Hinkiesque move by now, I suppose there is no limit to his endurance.
I'm fine with the Richaun Holmes pick as he's a late bloomer with an NBA body who has outperformed expectations at the lower levels. He also may provide another useful body if they can't retain Thomas Robinson. I hope Robinson stays but I certainly can sympathize if he decides to leave.
There were multiple players drafted on the second round who were well worth a tryout. There were four straight point guards drafted from 42 through 45. Hinkie could have given one of them a shot. Iowa's Aaron White (drafted #49), a 3 at the NBA level, made an all Big Ten team all four years at Iowa and was that school's career leader in free throw attempts. Notre Dame's Connaughton (#41) is a great athlete and competitor. Tyler Harvey (#51) lead the NCAA in scoring and three pointers made; it's not like this team has too many good three point shooters.
Considering all the first rounders likely to fall to the Sixers next year, Hinkie could have used the second round to acquire players for a one year tryout instead of acquiring players for the primary purpose of being throw-ins for future trades. Putting together active roster personnel doesn't seem to hold much enjoyment for this GM.
Quite the fall for Chris Walker. I remember following Florida reports looking for info on when this guy will be cleared to play. Just never panned out.
Hah, another borderline comical draft in the way things don't seem fall into place. Okafor was simultaneously the BPA and worst possible fit for not only the current team but the worst fit for what I take their offensive philosophy to be... unless they plan on trading away both Embiid and Noel. Very reminiscent of last year when I felt like Embiid/Saric were the clear BPA and yet also the clear least likely to be able to help anytime soon.
I was going to ask at LB yest something to the effect: Is their a chance we have the right process and the wrong processor or are the Sixers snakebit? I'm on board with the philosophy and general approach of the rebuild- and am willing to endure a few years of bad basketball if that means concentrating assets for long term success. Hinkie appears to be able to acquire the assets, but turning those assets into something is clearly the toughest part for them.
So far Noel and Okafor are the only star likely players who will be on the court next year, and the other pipeline guys (Embiid and Saric) all combine to for a jumble in the frontcourt. While the future assets of LA, MIA and OKC picks all devalued through poor luck since they were acquired.
It sort of is what it is. IMO the process is fine. And ultimately we will have to see if Hinkie has the skill/luck to pull it off. Part of that skill is building relationships accross the league with other teams and agents to eventual have the flexibility to flip his current assets and cap space into a cohesive team. I think he has a bit of rope left, but he has put himself in a bit of an upstream situation either through his own choices or through bad luck.
Judging by Okafor's reaction to being drafted by Sixers, he feels like he, too, missed out on Lady Luck and a four-leaf clover. Think he and his pop were mentally set for purple-and-gold lotusland.
Tk, what color Kool-Aid do you drink? And does Sam supply you with the straws?
Make no mistake, "process" and processor are conjoined twins.
Hinkie was hired 25 months ago. How is this 3 years in? The Bunkum trade 3 years ago killed the team, but that certainly had nothing to do with Hinkle- other then forcing the team into a radical rebuild by almost completely draining them of assets.
Sorry some of you guys are so eager to see this team fail in their rebuild. Strange world where some of the fanbase seems to enjoy the losing and another segment seems equally excited to tell you that the losing is proof that they are right about Hinkle being a farce.
Personally, I think there are reasons to question Hinkle and reasons for tanking. And I'd get zero satisfaction out of this grand experiment failing. Okafor seems like a terrible fit but a very talented player. And he is a Sixer now, so I hope he becomes a superstar for them.
The thing that frustrates me the most about one Sam Hinkie is his whole philosophy is basically based around a ton of abstract outcomes. The whole "we take the best available players" bullshit.
No one's certain which one of these young teenagers will be the "best"; no matter the position he plays, or overall. And to sit up at a press conference and continually refer to such nuggets as "I've said this previously..", "I've mentioned this at other press appearances..", and "We've been clear from the start..", is just hollow rhetoric that he's pushed all his chips in on the riskiest of all shot-in-the-dark-approach. Don't worry about any type of team-building or fit at all, just hell or high water your way to the motherfucking star, however rare they are to come along.
And not to mention, how much rarer you've made them available for yourself by winning 2 or 3 meaningless games for the last two seasons and coming up incrementally short of having the best odds to obtain that abstract savior.
I just don't see how it's automatically assumed that just because you "might" hit with a pick on a bonafide "star", you're suddenly well on your way to this mythical "champiohship/contender" status so many of the faithful long for; talk about abstract!
It takes soooo much more than that. Yeah, that might be the "starting" point, but hell, we're three fucking years into this already.
"[Thursday] night, we sort of just did one trade, in some sense, which maybe is a bit unusual. But you don't want to sort of be making moves to make moves. You want to be making things that you think will really moves things forward and that will really add talent to the pipeline in a way that makes sense. And if not, you want to do other things."
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This is sort of what I was talking about. His schtick is baseless and hollow rhetoric. He parses words so well for some gullible enough to fall for it.
What the fuck is Sam really trying to say?
Did this cat actually say "move things forward"??? Did he really say that?... And no he didn't say "add talent to the pipeline that MAKES SENSE", did he?
Well welcome to the party Sam! That's some hell of making sense that you've virtually taken the same position player in 3 straight drafts.
You's the most making-sense motherfucker I've ever stumbled upon, you shrewd individual you. Only you Sam, only you man.
Bless all the acolytes sopping up and following your molasses.
As for Okafor, the guy very well might be the best combination of low post scorer-passer in the NBA at age 19. He is also has legit NBA center size and should only improve over the next 5 years. I may not be a huge fan of the tradition low post game, but I still think he will be at very least a max salary guy during his career. I also think his defensive questions are Marjory overblown given his size and position. You can teach a guy with that size/length/quickness to be a net positive on defense.
As for Okafor, the guy very well might be the best combination of low post scorer-passer in the NBA at age 19. He is also has legit NBA center size and should only improve over the next 5 years. I may not be a huge fan of the tradition low post game, but I still think he will be at very least a max salary guy during his career. I also think his defensive questions are Marjory overblown given his size and position. You can teach a guy with that size/length/quickness to be a net positive on defense.
While I'm pissed about the draft (not getting Russell) and reality of our team right now, I am at least pumped that we get to see a real player hit the league next year. Call it what you want, but this is the NBA ready guy hitting the league. Doesn't always work (see: Evan Turner) but I don't even see pro guys with Okafors post moves and/or passes.
Here is my test. I don't hate Hinkie like many of you. I think I understand his "strategy" and how he balances best probability to be a great team.
You now have Okafor. Maybe you have Embid but I don't even count him. Noel could be a real piece.
All of those guys benefit significantly from a good wing shooter/defender like Leonard, Butler, Middleton but they will all be matched. They also all benefit from Danny Green - former D league - potential all defense team - elite 3 point shooter - Brett Brown player during Spurs era - young for his age given minutes played.
We've got enough lotto balls with Noel, Embid, Okafor. Our pick and Lakers pick may have upside next year but we don't need to avoid winning by not adding solid pieces like Danny Green.
If he does not want to play here then I will understand and be more annoyed - but damn Sam make a play. Give him a reason to come and help the cause. He has a title - get paid - be the vocal leader on a team of guys that want to be success stories like you.
Fair points. I think your post is very reasonable. I would not mind Green at all and I know you clearly value him very high. It would be nice to go after a player like him who can obviously help this team.
I'm looking forward to watching Okafor. Although I wanted other players for fit reasons, he's a great catch and there is not even an argument on whether or not he can have a long NBA career with multiple all-star appearances.
I don't particularly like college ball, and I'm not looking forward to "lottery watch" again. Believe me I'm not. But I laugh at the people who seem to be happy when things don't work out for this team so they can gloat about it. I just don't get that. But it is what it is. I want this team to move forward as well, but I don't think not getting Russell is the end of the world. I look at how Ainge had to beg people (Jordan most of all) to take a shitty Boston package of mediocre players and picks and I'm amazed at how some on this site feel that Boston is in such a better position than the Sixers. That roster SUCKS! Nobody wants those players. And don't think for a second that it was just Jordan who denied their shitty package. Ainge is smart enough to get Boston where they need to be, but I would honestly much rather be the sixers when it comes to deals. Just my opinion.
The salient point is that Ainge was able to accumulate his assets without making his team utterly unwatchable for two years.
Nothing that Hinkie has done is even a tiny bit special or creative vis-a-vis other GMs, he's just had the most rope from an owner who doesn't care about garbage being put on the floor. Hinkie got stuck with Embiid - had to take him, got stuck with Okafor - had to take him, roster still sucks. In the meantime, he's made a litany of mistakes, big and small, ranging from holding on to Turner, Hawes, and Thad long enough to screw up his own tank while getting nothing of value in return, to the KJ contract debacle, to a half dozen other things in between.
His ultimate doom will be Embiid. Blowing his load on a broken 7 footer in the year where his tank and the caliber of the draft class aligned to possibly get that elusive superstar, then following that up by drafting a slow footed Euro who struggles shooting (almost a good thing that Saric won't come stateside until 2018, there'd be no minutes for him in this haphazard rotation anyhow).
No, give me the Bucks, the Wolves, the Celtics rebuilding efforts any day. They're more constrained by owners who give a shit while still doing a better job than this loser.
Oh and can't forget cycling through damn near 50 scrub players over two years to find 2 replacement level one dimensional shooters. Another testament to Hinkie's talent finding abilities.
This will be year 3 of open court tryouts for the Sixers, let's pray that they find another Hollis Thompson.
Maybe the NBA busts them for some sleazy violation so they'll have to vacate their 19 wins, just for comedic relief's sake.
I'll give you the Bucks and Wolves. I like both of their rebuilds. But to say you want the Celtics rebuild efforts over the Sixers...I think you're a bit emotional right now and your dislike for Hinkie is clouding your brain. Give me one player on that roster that any GM in the NBA would value over Noel or Okafor(even Embiid for that matter)? And for the record, I like Ainge, and believe he'll get the Celtics back in legit contention.
I don't really get emotional about watching basketball. It's just guys playing with an inflatable bouncy ball. I'd say it's more about emphatically disagreeing that Hinkie is anything above an average NBA general manager.
If you surveyed NBA GMs, I doubt you'd find even a few that would value Marcus Smart or Avery Bradley over Okafor or Noel, but how many fans would prefer watching the Sixers over the Celtics the past couple years?
Both Philly and Boston are undergoing rebuilds in two very distinct ways. I would say the two teams have a comparable amount of future assets but Boston has been far more competitive and rewarding from an entertainment standpoint and will likely continue to be for the foreseeable future. All we've seen in Philly thus far is a controlled demolition and the novelty wears off pretty
quickly.
I don't know. I like to go on different teams SB Nation sites just to get an idea of what their fans think about their own teams. I especially look at Boston for the exact reason you mentioned. Both teams are actively rebuilding yet doing in completely different ways. I think both will succeed. But you may be surprised by the number of Boston fans on that site that view that playoff appearance as fools gold and a step in the wrong direction. You only think they are more entertaining because it fits your narrative. For you, it works. I have a different view. If you replace the two teams today I would despise that team. And generally speaking the environment is also a bit more forgiving in Boston based on the recent success of all teams in that city. Time will tell.
Surprised no one has linked this yet. Question - isn't the maximum allowable fine around 1 million? If so, wonder did the Sixers increase their payment to avoid draft pick loss?
Either way, this doesn't bode well on GM colleagues and player agents holding the franchise, and particularly Hinkie, in a favorable light.
Don't want to piss off your neighbors and future kids and their guardians
Whoa! Hadn't heard about this. Not sure what the maximum fine that can be brought down by the league is, but 3 mil sounds mighty hefty.
Can't remember but read it previously somewhere, I think you may be on to something with the draft pick loss. Maybe that really is why the fine is so high. Does that mean it was self-imposed?
Not only does this guy portray himself as the smartest cookie in the room, but he's slowly but surely becoming an outlaw/renegade while acting like it. Not good. At all. He's shady as shit.
Who knows what the reasons were but it wouldn't be a stretch to guess that is why he couldn't manuever back into the 1st round, being that he admitted at the presser that he had no intention of adding 6 new players to the roster.
I was already of the belief that no free agents want to come here before this regime took over. There's no way in hell anyone would want to come here now. If it's not bad press after bad press it's that we've become the butt of jokes around the league. Total laughingstock.
If an agent has a comparable deal or close deal on the table it's pretty easy to see which one he'd advise his client to take. Concerning the logjam in the front court (if Embiid ever gets healthy), this worries me that other GM's would be reluctant to deal for our players because of their disdain for Hinkie and his now proven slimyness. Not to mention, that two of our bigs have previously had major injuries. Ugh.
Smartest guy in the room will adjust his approach if its backfiring as much as some suspect.
At times it is a GMs market, at other times it is an agent's market. In one year from now (or two), when the cap jumps, everyone will have money. Not ideal if our relationships remain sour then.
I can believe Philly might have been less than upfront after the Bynum trade. It wouldn't be a sour taste in Hinkie's mouth given he wasn't part of Bynum, but perhaps for the owners.
According to the press, this was a "settlement" and not a "fine". So by definition, doesn't fall under the guidelines of the NBA (or so I imagine).
I have said the same thing a few times now but I will say it again in a different way.
I believe in the plan. I am okay with the last two years we sacrificed "win's". I am disappointed with the roster construct after those two lost years, but I think we have a lot of flexibility going forward. I think another year of the same strategy would be unwise. Not pursuing a decent roster will create only more and more public backlash - and I think we still have some time to salvage face by adding a decent free agent or trade.
Broken record but:
Sign a Danny Green
Trade for a Nik Stauskus
The thing that irks me the most is this was blatant cheating. By the amount they paid, it was breaking the rules by way of intentional deception.
Are you positive on this being a "settlement"? The link says "ordered to pay", that doesn't sound like a "settlement", to me. Hopefully someone else can chime in and clear this up but I thought the max the league could force you to pay, whether defined as a fine or not, was 1 mil.
On to the strategy thoughts. While I totally agree on it being unwise to tank again (never agreed with it to begin with), it seems like he's basically forced himself to. I mean, how can he not?
Assuming Embiid is not in the picture, he's only got a one-way big on O and a one-way big on D to build around. If you just take into account that Jahlil will be such a plus for us on offense this year being that we had almost next to no post presence last year, that will add several more wins right there. Point being, we're not really going to be bad enough to pick that high (top 3) anymore going forward if Jahlil contributes as he should.
Let's just say we'll be bad enough to fall in the 6-7 range with Jahlil's contributions and improvement from some others. Your chances of getting any stars aren't so high anymore. If you add what you're suggesting in a D. Green or a N. Stauskas, you're either back to the 10-13 range in the lottery, or worst case you're right back to where this strategy was trying to avoid in being 8th seed playoff fodder.
Therefore, it would seem if you're in his position you have to stand pat and just throw Jahlil out there and let him take his lumps, and hope like hell luck hits you in the face by the time next year's lottery rolls around. Or, keep sitting guys with these miniscule injuries ala upper respiratory infections, sore this or that throughout the season hoping to indirectly affect your overall record.
Even though I'm a staunch opponent of this dreadful approach, that is how I'd probably play it if I was in his position. He's pretty much backed himself into this big-man-corner that he's in and there really isn't an easy way out of it besides rolling the dice on a tank again.
If he does try to wiggle up out of it by adding incremental needle-movers, he's going against everything he set out not to do from the start.
Again, this is taking into account how much he's pissed off the rest of the league and agents as far as his now-hindered ability to deal and sign going forward. Remember, he's sort of still the new kid on the block and a bad rep can be a difficult thing to shake when you're mostly surrounded by the old boys club.
P.S. He's never given a shit about the public or the resulting backlash, and rightfully so.
There are differences between 8th seeds. And there are different points in the build. While the hope is to go from 20 wins to 55 wins, it is extremely difficult.
Adding Green to get to the 8th seed may be a failure to you. But I think the free agent pitch to a guy next year might be easier versus what it would be after another tanked year. Being the guy to put the team "over the top"
I think the Bucks are at least an "intriguing" destination for free agents this summer.
You avoid mediocrity if it also is the definition of your future. I don't think being hte 8th seed with Okafor, Noel and (say) Green is the definition of future mediocrity. You have some picks you could move for another difference maker and cap space to offer an attractive young gard.
"I think we have a lot of flexibility going forward."
Yes, I think Janis Joplin and Kris Kristofferson explored that theme when they sang "Freedom's just a another word for nothing left to lose."
The "smartest guy in the room" may be able to adjust but we'll have to see whether he has sufficient time remaining. While I don't have too much doubt that Brian essentially is on-the-money with his view that Hinkie is mostly a tool for ownerships' avarice, I also don't think they would hesitate to throw him under the bus if NBA and public sentiment turned ugly enough.
I'd say you should just go ahead and give up on the second part of your summer dream. He's not likely to come here. He wants a winning team. Check out this quote:
“I know how this business goes,” Green said. “There's a lot you can't control. If I get a great deal, a good city, a good organization, a winning team — everybody wants to have that.”
i might eat my words in a week if they go crazy in free agency but ill say it again im more worried that the lakers pick will land in the top 3 then i am about it being outside the top 7 or so
Agreed. Everything hinges on Aldridge. I initially thought that by drafting Russell, they had a deal in place with a big man, but maybe not. I still think they were foolish to pass on Okafor.
The last time the Lakers finished under .500 for three consecutive years was 1961. I realize past performance is no indicator of future blah, blah, blah, but it's relevant in that LA will always be a premiere destination.
They've got their lottery pick from this year, who looks ready to make an impact, their lottery pick from last year who was NBA-ready and absolutely no incentive to suck, considering they don't own their pick. Kobe's swan song will probably be a detriment, but they also aren't going to be led in minutes by Wesley Johnson. With no further moves, I'd put them at 30ish wins. No way are they bottom 5. When they add players, which they will, we're talking 40 and probably a pick around #10, at best.
The Miami and OKC picks are pretty much worthless, unless some superstar is forcing his way out of a situation and wants to come to Philly and/or Hinkie is willing to take a tremendous risk that he'll be able to re-sign a star (like the Deron Williams situation), and throws caution to the wind in a package sending our first, plus OKC, LAL and MIA first rounders out. Don't think that's very likely to happen. What's probably going to happen is we're going to finish somewhere in the 6-10 range, the Lakers will finish somewhere between 12-14, MIA and OKC will be out of the lottery and we're going to have to get extremely lucky to either (A) move up to a meaningful spot in the lottery and/or get extremely lucky and find a star in the mid-late portion of the lottery/first round. Outside of that, Hinkie's grand plan already has it's big splash from the lottery.
Of course, he could get extremely lucky and Okafor could get hurt early in the year and we could be in the bottom 3 again next summer. That's probably best-case scenario for this "process."
Meant to ask this even before the draft, but if by 2017 this team has yet to crack 30 wins and no superstar (rising or established) is on board, 1) does Hinkie get fired and 2) if yes, will he ever land another GM gig in the league?
He's trying to sell the team and get a substantial return on his initial investment.
He's willing to go at status quo until the team can get a young championship core like the OKC Thunder. I bet he builds a new stadium with public money in Camden but still calls the team the "Philadelphia 76ers". Similar to how the Detroit Pistons are located in Auburn Hills. Camden is less than a 10 mile drive from the Wells Fargo center.
The Sixers have a long term lease with the Wells Fargo Center. So Harris has the time to wait.
Hinkie is the perfect GM for Harris. He keeps costs low, doesn't take big risks, he makes solid draft picks, and his aim is championship or bust.
It would have to be at least 5 years of consecutive colossal bad draft picks to see Hinkie fired.
"He keeps costs low, doesn't take big risks, he makes solid draft picks, and his aim is championship or bust."
I don't understand that...he just sat there and took Okafor at 3. Billy King could have done that. His big hallmark pick the previous year at the same position will likely never have a meaningful career, so neither "doesn't take big risks" nor "solid pick" applies. And Noel is a good defender, I'd grade that one as "meets expectations" for a 6th overall pick.
"big risk" is the wrong term. Taking Embiid, Saric, and trading Jrue were big risks. What I meant was avoiding potential franchise crippling moves that would take away future picks and straddle the team with a high payroll and no cap space.
Billy King would have traded for Rudy Gay and signed someone like Al Jefferson to a huge deal.
If things got bad enough, the owners would throw Hinkie under the bus. He may be a useful tool but he is dispensable. I have little doubt of that and I'm guessing Hinkie knows that as well. If that happens, he'll be too toxic to get another GM job. He may be already too toxic to get another GM job.
I agree that Hinkie's prospects of finding another job would be pretty close to 0 unless he really turns this around. Word is that he's quickly becoming a pariah around the league - from agents to executives to league and now NBPA officials.
I think if another team in the future will want to try something similar, they'll find someone else to do it. Someone who can do it right and who's learned from watching Hinkie's mistakes.
I think a separate ownership group could pick him up and just think to give him less leash. If this Pelicans deal blows up with more details - that could be the end.
Nah, these guys don't rely on performance for their next job, they rely on connections. It's true in NBA front offices, but more so in MBA circles. Hinkie will get another job no matter how poorly this one turns out, and really, this hasn't turned out poorly at all from the perspective of a miserly owner who only cares about making money while minimizing risk. The value of the team has skyrocketed under Hinkie's care, they've turned a profit without investing much at all.
I seem to recall that you were favorably inclined toward drafting Jeff Withey a couple of years ago. The Pelicans didn't extend a qualifying offer to him so he is unrestricted now. Would be a good pickup for Hinkie now that he's cut Sims loose and Embiid is doubtful.
It's crazy how they bought the team for $287 mil and a couple years later it's valued at over $700. All they did was buy the Sevens and bring in Hinkie to kill the payroll.
Seems like you could even aggressively mismanage the team on purpose and still watch the value double within a few years.
Haha you nailed it. Really disappointed in that outcome.
I have been generally supportive on the moves for the past two years. I didn't agree with each of them but I liked our setup going into the lottery.
I am becoming more critical of the decision making since the draft and especially seeing Zach Lowe (respected) say things such as "haven't heard the sixers mentioned once today".
I think there needs to be a shift especially with the ongoing issues in the press with the Pelicans, agents and even players. You do not want to piss off everyone because the world is significantly more relationship dependent then most think.
I don't subscribe to most of the conspiracy theory stuff on here - but I think the dependency on luck is showing its downside.
Hinkie mentioned in the MCW deal that a lot of people run from uncertainty while he likes it. This was in relation to where the Lakers would pick. The obvious counter is that value is what someone is willing to buy something for. If he is the one spending most on uncertainty - then perhaps he is overvaluing it. It would appear that was the case with our lotto outcomes and the ongoing embid issues. At some point having something definitive is worth a lot more.
I believe we wasted a few second rounders which defeats the purpose of having 6. I liked our second round last year so perhaps had unrealistic expectations but then this argues the point of the vale of a 2nd rounder to begin with.
We know we have 3 big men that all have potential to be starters on good teams - maybe even stars on good teams. Adding good contracts will help their development AND open up more options for the future.
Look how easy Tiago Splitter was just dealt. A good contract can be moved. We need to at least have discussions with players and not start from scratch next year.
I now expect nothing over the summer and a logjam to start the year. A logjam is likely to deteriorate value in the bigs - either we need to trade one or one doesn't get enough time to showcase.
Stauskus and Cory Joseph at least have the feel of effort if added to the team. My expectations are low - Green was a dream (well after realizing Leonard and Middleton were a pipe dream)
I'm excited about Okafor but I'm really worried about ever having a real team.
Not a good day for the Lakers. Two straight years now that they have plenty of money to spend, yet can't attract marquee free agents.
I thought there was some truth to the early rumors that the pick of Russell at #2 would indicate that a FA big has committed to LA. Does not appear to be the case.
Per Woj, Sixers trading "overseas assets" for Stauskas, Carl Landry and Jason Thompson. Sixers wanted Stauskas, agreed to take on contracts of Thompson and Landry
Yes, I will give credit to Hinkie for what are likely the most creative uses of cap space in NBA history.
One could look at this as getting something for nothing OR simply underwriting another teams' free agent signings. Instead of trying to compete in a seller's free agent market where they don't seem to be well regarded, the Sixers are simply purchasing other teams' past free agents. So, Hinkie is getting a desirable young prospect and two competent veterans at yesterday's prices.
Zach Lowe @ZachLowe_NBA
Sixers will receive a protected 1st-round pick from the Kings, and swap rights w/ Sacto in the 1st round of two other drafts, sources say.
The acquisition of Stauskus is something I really like (as I ranted about above). The pick swaps seem great but I am not even focused on anything in that realm.
I know this is not the huge needle moving trade or signing that results in big wins - but it's a step in the right direction for real roster construction. I can get excited to watch Stauskus Covington and Okafor on the same floor.
I like the pick swaps as much as Stauskas. That's a team that might be winning the lottery if Vivek keeps this up, especially if Cousins forces his way out. They just cleared 2 years of cap space to overpay Rondo. Not sure who exactly they're bidding against.
I had originally been high on Stauskus next to MCW. I thought their strengths offset their respective deficiencies in the backcourt.
I know this is an absolute long shot but also what player development is here for - in a way, Sampsons ceiling is ideal next Stauskus. If I know Jakarr can be one thing, it's a good permiter defender (potentially 1-3). He can share ball handling responsibility with Nik but also save his defensive energy for offense.
Again - long shot - but at least enjoyable to think about.
Probably the first solid move of the Hinkie administration...or at least the first move that might actually make the team better in the short term. I liked Stauskus and think he might be a guy who could flourish if given unrestricted, low-pressure minutes in an open system. Might be a guy who, even if he doesn't turn into a great player, could look like a very good player. The type that you could trade for more than he's worth.
Anyway, this move should soften the blow of the news that Embiid is going to miss the entire season which I'm sure the Sixers will announce over the holiday weekend, hoping people will be too busy partying to react to.
Sixersfan mentioned the alleged targets. Don't forget that the Kings drafted Willie Cauley-Stein and probably expect him to play significant minutes.
As for the others, Rondo might still have something left despite coming off his worst season. I'm not sure why they would want both Monta Ellis and Rudy Gay. Matthews makes more sense.
word is Rondo is only looking for a one year deal to "fix" his rep/game after a that Dallas debacle. Then he would leave (in theory) if he has any kind of a year.
I just don't get why they agree to the pick swaps. I mean, they just gave the sixers higher chances for a #1 pk.
I guess the Kings are determined to not be competing for that top pick and figure that the Sixers' pick will be always before theirs. This whole transaction is a big bet by the Kings, but after 9 straight seasons of missing the playoffs I guess they figured it was time for bold ambition.
That's a REAL nice get for MIL! Very happy for them in the sense that a small market team beat out both the Lakers and Knicks. Good for the league and that fan base.
Eh, Monroe doesn't really do it for me. Glad they beat out the Knicks and the Lakers, and pretty much no contract this summer is going to wind up being a terrible contract once the cap explodes, so good for them. I just don't think he elevates them all that much.
I don't like hm that much myself (especially for the Sixers), but I think it's a win for MIL and their fans. In the past they weren't landing this type of FA. He'll be a decent fit there.
Yea - I at least like the roster they constructed. Betting on Greak Freak or Jabari being a top 10 guy. Certainly a chance they top out and become the Hawks of the 00s - but it's worth the shot this early.
Mcw
Middleton
Gianni's
Jabari
Monroe
Henson
Ennis
Mayo
I feel like the roster compliments itself. I think Monroes offense is overlooked and Henson can potentially offset his defensive woes.
Fairly low considering some of the contracts offered over the last two days. I don't know what it is about this guy (other than his mediocre free throw shooting). He just can't seem to get much respect.
The silver lining here is potentially less opportunity cost for being mediocre. If the Kings struggle as it appears they will, we can care a bit less about our own wins.
I am hoping that will be the approach.
Patrick Beverley is an interesting free agent. I never considered him a good fit, but the way things are shaping up, he could slide in nicely. I imagine Hinkie would wait for Aldridge to shake out because that will determine the Rockets next move (and likelihood to match Beverley and/or trade Terrence Jones).
Jerami Grant put on 10lbs of muscle this summer. Something tells me we would hear if Noel had done the same.
"The silver lining here is potentially less opportunity cost for being mediocre."
That's exactly how I look at it. 2016 & 17 rights to swap picks with Sacto essentially frees up Philly to finally start building in a tangible, on-court way without worrying about losing out on high draft picks as much (provided the Kings are bad). I'll be rooting for Sacramento to implode this season and for my favorite team to win games.
I was hoping he would leave so that pick would have a better chance of not translating next year, but he prob won't be the difference. He's missed over 20 games each of the last two seasons.
Lowe has mentioned Miami needed to pay Wade so their image remains intact when pursuing future free agents (ie Durant). He took a pay cut to win 2 titles with Lebron with the understanding theyd reward him down the line. They'd look bad if they didn't take care of their most important player of all time
I don't think you can really compare their ages, as Wade has broken down a lot from age 28-32 while Duncan seems like he has continued to get stronger through his mid to late 30's. But both have had a lot of success playing next to other great players. But the Heat really struggled without Lebron last year- even when they had Wade. While I don't expect Duncan will ever be asked to shoulder that type of load.
My only point in that post is that nobody should expect Wade to take less money than he can get at this point in his career. Despite taking below market money over the last few years, Duncan has managed to earn almost $100 million more in NBA compensation over his career than Wade has through 2015. This is very likely Wade's last big contract.
Always liked Dwyane's competitive fire. In prime, a wicked streak of lightning. Deserves deferred money. Think of all the bums and frauds gettin' theirs in NBA thanks to shrewd agency and serendipitous timing. Wade is bonafide. With longer summer and Heat adjustments, a resurgence isn't out of the question.
its ridiculous i even have to think about this but cause the kings are the kings they have to go through with the trade with sixers so they have the space for rondo and belinelli
I was scared to death that a couple FA signings wouldn't come through for them and they would back out of the deal. Anything is possible with that team. I still can't believe they made that deal. Sixers now have four chances at the lottery over the next two years assuming SAC doesn't make the playoffs. Although I could see the Sixers making the playoffs after next season and having a better record that SAC over the next two seasons. What a trade.
Using Brown parlance, is it a needle mover or just the continuing of a parade of gypsies?
Trade breakdown: 2 salary dumps (fatty pork chops), 1 rookie chump (burnt toast) and a contingent 1st round pick (sirloin to spam). Cost: the rights to 2 European dreamers, 2 Eurailpasses.
Widely praised, but I think it's partly due to Okafor grab and resultant happy party.
This acquisition does seem to indicate a partial departure from the "parade of gypsies" strategy. He acquired two bona fide NBA rotation players and a soph with significant potential. At least he is giving Brown something more to work with this season. He'll still need a couple of potential gypsies in order to have available spaces for next year's anticipated draft picks.
Hinkie is being widely praised because he has managed to reset a significant portion of the fans' expectations to historically low levels. After being completely indifferent to improving this team over the last two years, he has finally made a move to upgrade the quality of the roster. Apparently it's not registering for some that Sacramento was the logical party to initiate this deal and Hinkie, having buku cap space and holes all over the roster, was in the best position to accommodate them. It was a good move for sure, but calling him a "genius" for this is a little like calling an unemployed guy a genius because he was available for work when a good job offer came through.
I don't think anyone is calling him a "genius" for this move. But let's be fair and give him proper credit. In truth we don't know how these negotiations work, but I doubt that SAC just volunteered those pick swaps. Fact is that Hinkie got this deal done. He was also smart enough to do this deal early in the FA process while other teams with significant cap space were still chasing FAs that they had no shot at. At the end of the day, this is a similar haul to what Ainge got from Brooklyn (minus a pick, but adding Stauskas), although Hinkie gave up nothing. Nobody would dream of not giving Ainge credit for that deal. I think Hinkie deserves the same.
Praise to you Buke for at least acknowledging that adding Stauskas was a positive move. Giving credit where credit is due.
I also have take a break from my negative attitude to give credit. This trade was a beat down! Those first round swaps can be huge because it gives the Sixers two more chances to win the draft lottery. I think it would have been a very good trade even without the swaps. We gave up nothing except taking on some salary.
Can anyone bring me up to speed on Stauskas? He couldn't get off the bench for a crappy team (15 mpg). Potential floor spacer?
10.8% on catch and shoot 3s with a defender on him. Plus he won't ever be able to finish at the rim at a decent clip considering how weak and unexplosive he is, at least in my estimation. Minus defender as well.
^ that chart shows his shooting splits by defender distance.
I like the trade, nonetheless, but mostly for the pick swaps.
I didn't watch the Kings much last season, but everything I read indicates that his second half was a real positive. So maybe the numbers don't quite reflect how his numbers should look next season with a single coach and actual steady minutes. Let's hope at least. Not sure what there is to say about his defense(or lack of) except that he is athletic, so perhaps some changes in technique will help him improve over time.
Athletic enough...sure. Why not? His scouting reports, at least to my recollection, state he has good athleticism. Not elite by any means but better than average. That should work with some good coaching.
Pretty decent trade for LA. 28 year old center on the last year of his deal for a 2nd round pick. In surpised that another team like Boston or Atlanta wasn't able to get him on a better offer.
I still think LA doesn't come close to making the playoffs.
And they're off...to a 5-12 deficit that is. Like the San Antonio regular team, the SA summer team has some shooters. Like the Philly regular team, the summer team doesn't.
Okafor finally makes one. Some of these fouls he's drawing could easily be called travels.
Well one half in, and he's at least passed the Evan Turner test. He's shown some nice moves despite shooting a low percentage. Too bad nobody can shoot on this team or he's have a few assists to go with 6pts 4rb 2blks.
Nice game by Okafor. Holmes will be interesting to watch as well. McRae wasn't the least bit impressive. For a guy who spent the last year playing professionally, it didn't show. And he is absolutely not a PG. Okafor missed all four of his FTs.
McRea didn't have the greatest game but I'm not going to draw any conclusions from that yet. He was a little overeager. He did manage to hit three of their four threes. Stauskas will have to be the second coming of Steve Kerr for this team to score much from three point range.
Nice start for Okafor although he did force a few.
I didn't watch the Sixers much last year so I couldn't appreciate what Aldemir does as what he does doesn't completely show in the box score.
Except for missing the outside shooters early in the game the defense was pretty solid.
Don't know anything about Holmes but was def impressed with him tonight. Didn't know he had that range. I watched McConnell a bit at AZ and thought he was very good tonight running the team. Gotta hit open threes if he's gonna stick tho.
There is ZERO space in the paint in SL games. That said, Okafor is really good at finding his way to the hoop. He def looked tired at times and like he didn't have his legs under him but Brown's fitness regimen will take care of that in a hurry. A few months of not playing organized ball will do that to you.
For a 40+ like me, it's a lot of fun to watch a true low-post player do his thing on the block. Having Covington and Stauskas out there to spread the floor will do wonders for Okafor as well.
Def looking forward to rest of the games in Utah and then seeing the progress in Vegas.
Agree with Okafor as I also thought his motor wasn't quite what it needed to be. Nevertheless, pretty good start for him.
I'm interested to see Holmes' share of minutes over the summer league. In some ways I'd rather have him playing more minutes than Jerami based on what I saw tonight. I'd like to see him on the roster but maybe they will do the same thing with him they did with McRea last year.
I think motor = cardio for Okafor in this case. 260+ lbs is a lot to haul at altitude in your first game in months. He was slow to get back defensively a few times after thinking he got hacked on the offensive end. Typical rookie stuff tho, nothing egregious.
If his level of comfort in the post is this high in his first summer league game, I'm really excited about what's to come.
Sixers coach Lange commented that the altitude in Utah makes it tough on players as well. So that no doubt affected his wind, but I would agree that in general he needs to improve on conditioning and he will improve on it. He's going to be fun to watch.
Agree on the health, but that injury last year was just unfortunate. I was watching that game and it was just one of those plays where he rolled in ankle because he stepped on someone's foot. But you are right, injured is injured.
I don't mind the bad shooting so much because he looked like he had improved a bit before he went down last year. And I love everything else he brings. Unlike MCW or ET, Rubio is a dynamic PG who really understands the position. He's also good defender. If the price wasn't crazy, I'd take a shot.
im not even making this up but the clippers are at jordan's house keeping out anyone so he can sign a contract ASAP. the 30 for 30 on this is going to be great
@WojYahooNBA Sources: DeAndre Jordan still has everyone closed out, including Cuban. Clippers are two hours away from signing him, they believe.
Chris Broussard – Verified account @Chris_Broussard
Sources: Cuban is beside himself. Driving around downtown Dallas begging (thru texts) Jordan's family for address to DeAndre's home
7:17 PM - 8 Jul 2015
I wonder how competitive Dallas will be this year. Apparently Hibbert was supposed to be traded to Dallas but the offer was turned down once DeAndre committed to signing with them.
From what I have seen of Okafor, it is generally in-line with what I expected. At age 19, he looks like he will be an elite post-scorer. His weaknesses have been as expected: defense, some athleticism getting shots off, and getting winded. But I am not too concerned. I don't feel ridiculous in saying he looks like a potential 2nd best player on a contender.
Holmes looks as intriguing as anyone can after 2 summer league games. As much as Okafor is NOT a fit in the new NBA, Holmes seems like the perfect fit. Nothing to get too excited about, but compelling at the least.
The PG position is concerning to me. I would give Wroten a shot for the first couple of months, but that is the best of shitty options in my opinion. Everyone has given up on Canaan despite him joining midseason, so perhaps there is some upside there. Pierre Jackson may be hurt again. I am hoping that the consensus negative is overdone and someone surprises to the upside...I won't hold my breath.
This whole DeAndre Jordan fiasco is a disgrace. Is he a grown man or a 13 yr old girl? I have no problem with him changing his mind. It's a tough decision, and the moratorium is what it is, so nothing is truly official until the actual signature. Plus this isn't the first time similar scenarios have occurred.
My main issue is with the lack of integrity in how he handled this process. I mean, who raised this kid? If you make a mistake and change your mind, go meet with Cuban in person, like a man, like a professional, and tell him that you made a mistake. Or at least pick up the phone (even though that's still a coward's way). What a joke.
13 year old girl in a grown man's body. Either he's so impressionable that he and his team thought that the last ones who talk to him will be the ones who sign him, or he just asked them all to stick around so he has a lame excuse for not being able to say 'No' to Cuban's face.
So any thoughts on who may make the roster from this summer league squad? I didn't watch very much.
From what I gather, the only true positives have been Holmes and Aldemir. McRae seems like a black hole who only has his wingspan and ability to get to the stripe going for him. Grant is still as raw as ever. Tokoto isn't an NBA player. Ditto for McConnell. And Okafor has his work cut out for him if he wants to hit his Al Jefferson/Greg Monroe ceiling.
Honestly Holmes was the biggest upside surprise for me. It's a shame with this injury but I'd expect him to be with the big boys this year.
Grant will make roster because of last year. I'll make the excuse that summer league isn't ideal for his game. He didn't show much improvement from what I saw last year but I won't get too caught up in 3 games.
Aldemir isn't a total lost cause. There is progression so I'd expect he is here barring a healthy log jammed front court.
McConnell is a long shot in my opinion. Maybe Delaware but I'd put the money strongly against opening roster.
That was it in my opinion. Hoping Pierre Jackson can get some minutes and facilitate a clean offense. I'm not expecting Jakarrs game to look good in summer league so prepared to be disappointed there.
Overall hoping we aren't done with our roster before the season begins.
That's true, but he's still only 31. Seems like not that long ago people were debating whether he or Chris Paul was the best point guard in the league. I think there's a chance he rejuvinates his game a bit in Dallas, and the Mavs aren't paying much at all to find out so I like the move.
Might pay dividends. Emphasis on might. Didn't like the Sloan rebellion. Seems like a
head case. Maybe Dallas will kiss his ass at the perfect longitude and latitude and spur better production.
I watched the first couple of quarters of the LAL v. T-Wolves lat night, and admittedly it was tough to watch Russell. He'll be a really good player, and would have a been a nice fit here. He is who I wanted. For that matter, Towns is going to be something down the road as well.
But I don't want to dismiss Okafor just because his game is not in the "direction the NBA is going." I'm so sick of hearing that phrase. Yes, it is obvious that the game of late has been moving in the direction of smaller, more athletic bigs who can stretch the floor. In truth there has also been a lack of truly skilled legitimate 6'll/7'0 guys coming into the league in the last decade. But I look at Okafor's game and I have a hard time seeing how his game, coupled with some legitimate shooters, cannot succeed today. He is as good a passer out of the post as any big man I have seen, and he's only 19! I would be interested in seeing what he and a healthy Embiid(next week should be fun) could do down low on the glass, and scoring in the low-post. Teams are not going to be able to go small for very long against they type of front line the Sixers will be rolling out. Yes, there will be some questions as to how Okafor will match up on defense, but I'm willing to give this kid a chance to develop and improve there.
I don't know how this will all work out anymore that the rest of you. More than likely one the the Noel/Embiid/Okafor trio will be traded in the not so distant future. But Okafor is going to be a good player in this league. I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss how effective his game will be.
Adrian Wojnarowski ✔@WojYahooNBA
Free agent forward Luc Mbah a Moute progressing on a deal with the Sacramento Kings, league sources tell Yahoo Sports.
11:49 PM - 12 Jul 2015
Hmm if I knew you in person I might take you up on that. I don't see Saric coming over before 2017 at the earliest and I expect Embiid to suit up for at least a few games in 2016 before getting hurt again.
Agree completely. I suspect that the odds are more than 50% that Saric won't arrive until 2017 and if Embiid can play in 2016, he must play for the Sixers to have any chance of trading him.
Last night provided an exciting look at Okafor's potential. Say what you want about summer leave, but Black and Upshaw are two NBA sized and skilled players that are both known for defense. What was unique was Okafor's ability to "figure them out" rather than vice versa. 6/14 doesn't look sexy at first glance, but he had a few shots just rim out and I'd be confident about that number going up.
I expect some radical volatility for Okafor this season. Much more than a usual rookie because of his reliance on entry passes, unique back to the basket game, and odd variance of what he will be matched up against. I'm hoping he has a "wear down" style which will only work if his fitness is top notch.
Pierre Jackson was okay. He has some signs of running a team. It wasn't all fluid but his ability to knock down shots was warmly welcomed. He has a unique pacing style to his game.
Sampson looked better to me in a glue guy sense - but damm his +\- did not support that.
"What was unique was Okafor's ability to "figure them out" rather than vice versa"
Could not agree more, and man is he fluid around the post. I am also impressed with the patience he shows with double(even triple) teams. This kid is WAY beyond his years in that area.
I'm really hoping Hinkie can make a move to bring in a good young PG. Don't know who that will be, and it may not happen until next season, but it will be nice to see when that player arrives. In the short term I's be happy with Ish/Jackson. Anyone know anything about Micic? Is he back from injury? I would be interested to know what the plans are with him, and if he is even considered an NBA prospect.
@WojYahooNBA Oklahoma City has informed Portland it has matched $70M offer sheet for restricted free agent Enes Kanter, league sources tell Yahoo Sports
So can someone from camp Hinkie explain to me what the plan even is at this point? Right now it looks like 'do nothing, keep losing, and build around Okafor', which seems like a surefire way to ~10th-8th seedery in a few years.
Or is Plan Permatank still rolling along without skipping a beat like it's still 2013? If so, who are we tanking for this time? Labissiere is probably the target since he plays Center, which also means they don't get him and take the guy* ranked 3 spots below, because Sixers, and because Okafor probably adds just enough W's to put them in 'pseudo mediocrity' land again i.e. pick 3 in a 1-2 star draft.
*(this guy will also play Center, because BPA all day & trust the process etc)
Or is it keep holding our breath for Embiid while hoping that some scrubs like Sampson and Grant "add a jumpshot" or whatever. Talking about which non-lotto picks convey when while watching 60 more losses.
I figured they'd hit a dead end with this eventually but I wasn't expecting it to be this soon.
I don't think they've hit a "dead end" yet but another big loss season would appear to be on the horizon. I don't think they'll lose as many but they'll lose more than 50.
Hinkie will go with some of the usual fill-ins on low cost contracts with team options and will wait for next summer's draft to see who he can draft for the team and which picks he can trade. I suspect this might be the last big losing season although not the last in the string of losing seasons. When your team is as bad as the Sixers for the past two seasons, improvement is virtually inevitable.
this should be pretty obvious but anyway, the goal is a NBA championship. The best way to do that is sign a lebron or durant type player(not happening) so have they have to get them through the draft
what do you want them do? build a "team" instead of finding the best players
until they get stars they shouldnt worry about fit
The plan is to do whatever is going to make you whine and complain the most. How is he doing?
Seriously...enough already. You don't like the direction the team is going. I get it. But how are you not yet tired of the pro vs. anti "Hinkie Plan" discussion/debate?
Instead, why can't we discuss what moves you would like to see now to move this team forward? I would love to participate in that discussion.
I'm going to continue being Debbie Downer about all things Sixers related until management starts doing stuff that I actually agree with. I was born in Russia so unwavering cynicism and negativity is in my DNA kinda (which works i think, because you'll never be disappointed if your outlook on life sounds like the title of a Joe Budden mixtape).
In fact I'm surprised at how half the folks on here are not pessimistic at all (it seems). I thought being a sports fan from Philly/South NJ = constant black cloud lol yet somehow a novice unproven GM managed to inspire the most negative fanbase ever to Iversonian levels, with his process where nothing goes right and where every positive minor development is offset by 2 negative major ones.
And yes I'm tired of the endless pro vs. anti Hinkie arguments too. I'd also like to see more variety, but unfortunately, there's nothing bball related left to discuss. Hence why every thread inevitably flows into a discussion of Hinkie's strategy, because everything about this team is in the future tense only
Fair enough. While I disagree on with you on how bad things are, I do appreciate your perspective and the fact that you take the time to articulate your points(which you always do).
For example:
"In fact I'm surprised at how half the folks on here are not pessimistic at all (it seems). I thought being a sports fan from Philly/South NJ = constant black cloud lol yet somehow a novice unproven GM managed to inspire the most negative fanbase ever to Iversonian levels, with his process where nothing goes right and where every positive minor development is offset by 2 negative major ones."
Regarding the lack of pessimism you mention on this site (which I actually think is closer to 50/50 as far as who is OK with where this team is, and who is not), I will only speak for myself as to why I am more optimistic. Post Iverson era, I hit rock bottom during the Stefanski/Collins period(s). I initially thought both were good hires. I was never in favor of tearing everything down. I was ecstatic when the Bynum deal was made. I was so sick of the position this team was in (borderline 8th seed hell)and I LOVED the risk/reward of that deal. When that failed, and all of the back story info came out about Collins essentially quitting before Christmas his last year, wanting to sign Kwame Brown to a long-term deal, and the resulting players/assets left over after the wreckage...I was done. I wanted new everything. New front office, new owners (who are not 100% Flyers and 0% Sixers),new coach, but most of all, new perspective.
So...I am OK with where this team is philosophy-wise. If you don't have a star player, you have no hope. And despite the painful basketball over the last couple of seasons, I feel this regime is putting this team in the best possible position to draft/acquire a star. Obviously there is a good deal of luck involved. And lately the luck has been bad. The Embiid injury was a big blow, but I honestly can't argue with the draft choices made over the last couple of seasons. Now, I do agree that Hinkie should have never let Turner and Hawes exist long enough to be hitting turnaround 3's at the buzzer to win meaningless games. Hinkie was late on the trigger, and it cost this team. But I give him a B+ for drafting and sticking with a BPA philosophy. I love the Brett Brown hire, love the trades he's made, and I feel team is in a very strong position to build going forward.
"Instead, why can't we discuss what moves you would like to see now to move this team forward? I would love to participate in that discussion."
I honestly don't know at this point. There isn't even agreement on what constitutes "forward".
I had a rough idea of how I wanted the rebuild to unfold in the early stages after the Holiday trade, but Hinkie went in a different direction right away. That's why it's kind of impossible to answer the people who say "stop complaining because I haven't seen anyone even suggest an alternate strategy". I mean at this point we're all tangled up and 3 off-seasons deep already, so how can someone provide an exact step by step alternative strategy? unless I just go back to 2013 and start making up a whole new imaginary timeline for a hypothetical rebuild.
so how bout you, what do you think is the best way to move forward?
I know PG is the most plentiful position in the league today, so I'm not panicking that we don't have one. That being said, I want one, and a good one. I would like to see this team get creative to obtain the type of PG they are looking for. If that can't happen this years, I would at least like to bring Ish Smith back. Yes, he's no long term answer, but at least he knows that the future of this team rests with the bigs down low, and he knows his job is to get them the ball in position to score.
After that, more patience, which I know you want no part of. This team has the ability to make any number of future moves. I just don't want to see this team take anymore steps back, and I don't think they will. While I don't need to see a big increase in wins to judge growth, I do want to see development.
On another note, Okafor is going to be great, but I think I have seen enough of Porzingis to feel confident that he could be the best player in this draft in 3 years. I love his makeup.
Same. Other than taking MCW over Giannis I don't know what else he could have done differently in hindshight. Look at what the Celtics, Lakers, Magic, and Kings have done during that same time span. There wasn't a big trade or signing that the Sixers missed out on.
Or maybe we can take the whole "this is what I was hoping he would do" nonsense out of the equation and just grade the assets he's accumulated. Something like this:
Noel -> Probably worth a lottery-protected first rounder in next year's draft right now.
Okafor -> top-10 protected? Value probably goes down after this season.
Saric -> lottery-protected...maybe.
Embiid -> maybe a late first-rounder, probably not.
Covington -> second rounder
Everyone else -> pretty much worthless.
Then you've got the picks:
1) Our pick this summer -> probably another bottom 5 record, so compute the odds of winning the lottery.
2) LAL pick (top 3 protected) -> most likely will convey this summer as a pick somewhere between #5 and #15, my thinking is it'll be closer to #15 but an argument can be made in the other direction.
3) SAC (right to swap if it isn't conveyed to CHI this summer) -> Pretty unlikely Sacto will be worse than us, but possible. More likely we swap spots with them than they convey the pick to Chicago (top 10). Basically, add their ping pong balls to ours for a top-three pick.
4) MIA pick -> most likely will convey as a pick outside of the lottery this summer
5) OKC pick -> most likely will convey as a pick outside of the lottery this summer
6) SACTO future first (2018, top-10 protected. Unprotected in 2019) -> who knows, pretty far down the line.
Here's the big question. Could a GM with a less severe plan have wound up with this stable of "assets" without making a mockery of the game for two entire seasons?
I think pretty much any other strategy from the GM realistically should have and would have accumulated this level of assets without the pain of putting a laughingstock on the floor for two entire seasons (and soon to be three).
On the floor, it remains to be seen how good Okafor will be, but let's assume he's a really good low-post scorer and a terrible defender. It might seem like Noel is a perfect fit with him, but that's not really the case at all. Noel's presence on the offensive end is going to hinder Okafor's ability to play in the post a ton. Every team will have a natural double built in that won't leave a shooter open.
On the defensive end, Noel will probably be able to help Okafor out most of the time, with Okafor playing the less-mobile big on the other team.
Anyway, best case right now we've got three starters, and no impact players with maybe another fringe starter if Stauskus is much better than he showed last year. With Saric still two years away and Embiid at least a year away, if you buy into him at all. How much better off are they right now vs. if this was year 1 of a rebuild? I'd say not much. Anyway, what do you guys think?
I guess I'd give him a:
B+ on decisions/execution
C+ on outcomes
The first grade (Decisions/Execution) is easier to determine than the second. I think the Noel trade was the right idea given the state of the franchise at the time. The decision to go BPA and not be afraid to wait for a player was also smart. On the flip side, depending on the medical advise they got, I personal was too risk averse to take Embiid. But ultimately, having one of the 3 elite talents have a red flag the year you draft #3 is terrible luck. I also think Hinkie was slow on the draw his first year with the ET/Hawes trades an I think last year's roster was to stripped down at the start to foster player development.
The outcome grade is tricky. They seem to be a bit unlucky between the Embiid injury prior the draft (changing the #3 pick from a great spot to a bad spot to be picking.) Then they failed in having either LA, MIA or OKC convey this year (one late 3 pointer was the difference between OKC #18 and MIA #11 and LA was nearly a 1:5 shot.) Also, it was odd to see such a weak roster fail to get the worst record in consecutive years.
Obviously MCW was nearly the BPA but a poor fit. While it is hard to know what trades/moves using their picks and space have been an option. But on the flip side, I think bad teams rarely get "lucky" and land franchise altering talent, and the lottery always is a bit of a crapshoot even with the best scouting. So since I don't really know the true odds involved it is hard to know if what we are seeing is expected or a bit less than that.
Much less important, but still relevant, is how Hinkie has represented the organization. On one had he has developed a cult-like following and there is a fair amount of support among casual fans (which is sort of surprising.) On the other hand I find his lack of communication annoying (especially since he is a good speaker when he is willing to share.) And he has pulled off some low class moves in terms of low balling marginal players and the Jrue trade. He definitely gives off the "I think I'm the smartest guy in the room" vibe- and that is a bit of a red flag as well as a turn off (from both GM's and would be GM's :)
Court product: abysmal with hustle on top
Public relations: think Howard Hughes and Anthony Wiener
Prospects: out of the money for foreseeable future
Methodology: Spy vs. Spy, The Great Gatsby, Charlie Brown
Atmosphere: nerd fraternity party with endless bowl of M & M's
Ticket purchase interest: zero
Look back to where we were prior to the 2013 draft. Would you rather be there? Was there progress versus just operating with Holiday, Young and Turner? Instead you have Okafor who has at least as much star potential in my mind as Jrue did - not to mention at a scarce position. He is on a rookie deal and can be built around if he develops into a star or be a complimentary piece.
I really don't give a shit about the approach. If you try to be good you are a 6-8 seed. If you try to mask sucking you finish >5 lotto odds. It's practically impossible to guarantee the worst record as we have seen so the emphasized disappointment for not dealing turner earlier feels way overdone. I still dock him points for it but nothing serious.
I view our front court as competitive against anyone over the next 5 years. It involves meeting potential but I have confidence in these two players. I don't buy the spacing argument as a game breaker because both guys are incredibly young. Defensively it's as good as a combo for Okafor as I can think of - and offensively I think Okafors ability to pass out of the double teams and think two passes early will do quite a bit for nerlens. His step out makes the double defender make a decision to trap or retreat which is when defenses scramble. If every answer to the ideal pairing for a front court guy is serge ibaka then you are asking too much.
Covington could the most valuable contract in the league pretty soon. He is a real rotational player.
Our biggest need is the deepest position in the league.
If the Kings suck we don't have to worry about mediocrity as a potential consequence of player development.
I'm harsh on outcomes for the team but I can't point to many GMs that I think have done such massively better jobs positioning for the years ahead.
D
I absolutely hated the Embiid pick at the time because of the injuries. Other than that pick, I liked all of his moves looking at them individually. Looking at his decisions as a GM as a whole makes me question when he will be accountable for the team's performance.
"They just might. They are the anti-Sarvers, for better or worse. The team has been profitable during this extended downturn, per league documents obtained by Grantland; Philly pays no money into the league’s revenue-sharing system and receives the same luxury tax distribution as every other team that comes in below the tax line. The value of the franchise has at least tripled since Josh Harris and his private equity partners purchased the team in 2011."
"If Philly is really willing to do this for five, six, or seven seasons, it almost cannot fail."
This is just an outright lie. Minnesota and the Clippers are perfect examples of how a decade in the top of the lottery can, and is more likely to, lead to more and more of the same. The Sixers are more reliant on luck than the Suns or anyone else. The Suns are at least taking gambles on somewhat proven commodities. The Sixers are taking again and again for a 25% chance at that elusive superstar that may or may not even be available in the season that they get the top pick, and then may or may not be chronically injured, and may or may not be a lead-footed Al Jefferson, or an energy guy with no offensive game, or Toni Kukoc without the jumper who's three years away.
Accumulating C- assets doesn't automatically turn into a superstar. And doing this year after year after year doesn't guarantee anything. All it guarantees is you'll have maybe that same 5% chance of landing the guy every year in the draft. So what, 20 years would be the statistical average for actually landing the star. Of course, with an owner perfectly happy to take advantage of the welfare state of the CBA and a GM perfectly capable of plying his MBA to the system which was mistakenly based upon the notion that teams would want to win, not squeeze every penny out of it, I guess they can maintain this nonsense indefinitely.
Man, you're really sticking with the Jahlil Okafor is a "slow-footed Al Jefferson" aren't you?
Damn I just don't see it. I feel like at WORST, Okafor is Al Jefferson. At 19, he's already bigger (taller and heavier), has a nearly three inch advantage in wingspan, and is a better passer out of double-teams than Jefferson ever has been.
He also seems to have some Alpha dog in him, which I feel like will go a long way towards the ability for teammates to trust him to carry the load.
"Of course, with an owner perfectly happy to take advantage of the welfare state of the CBA and a GM perfectly capable of plying his MBA to the system which was mistakenly based upon the notion that teams would want to win, not squeeze every penny out of it, I guess they can maintain this nonsense indefinitely."
I would hope that they cannot and that the league would apply pressure eventually.
This sort of strategy may very well be self-limiting. Eventually these draft picks will get to the point where they have to be paid significant amounts to be retained. If Hinkie and ownership are still around in a few years and we see them refusing to match offers on quality restricted free agents, then we'll have clearer evidence that this "building a championship under a long-term process" claim was a ruse.
As far as assigning a grade to Hinkie, I think assigning one grade is too difficult and he must be graded on multiple dimensions individually.
1) On prolonging his own tenure: A+
2) On creating an aura of the mysterious genius to which the hopeful can attach their dreams: A (he's a veritable Chauncey Gardiner of the NBA)
3) Asset Collection: B+ (he's sure assembled a lot of them and some of them have to work out)
4) Actual Player Collection: C (To be sure, he's managed to get a few good players, but counting all of the draftees and other auditions, his hit rate must be well below the Mendoza line)
5) Team Development: D (Considering that
Milwaukee went from the worst record to the playoffs and Boston improved by 15 games this past year, this grade is surely deserved)
I'm pretty sure that if the Sixers spent a little bit more money and had a moderately successful team, their net profits would be higher than what it is now. They're one of the few teams in the NBA that aren't eligible for the NBA's revenue sharing program so it's not as if their current method is making them big money.
One thing that people keep ignoring is that free agency in the last 2-3 years hasn't really been a buyer's market. I thought it was crazy last summer when Gordon Hawyard and Chandler Parsons received max deals, but their deals don't look bad compared to the deals Reggie Jackson and Enes Kanter received this summer. Max contracts are a joke. Money isn't really much of a factor anymore and more and more teams have significant cap space. For a free agent to switch teams, take less money and less guaranteed years on his contract, it would have to be for a team with championship aspirations. LA, Boston, NYK, Sacramento, Utah, Minnesota, and Toronto can't offer that.
Even premiere NBA markets aren't much of a factor anymore. None of the big players in free agency really considered going to the Knicks or the Lakers. The CBA has almost made free agency a non-factor. It wasn't like 7 years ago when only 3 teams in the NBA had the cap space to sign Elton Brand.
The draft is sadly the best way to make an elite team. And you know that. I don't like seeing the crap that's out their either and sometimes I do get a little embarrassed to be a Sixers fan. But the prospect of being able to get the top players in the country year after year is more exciting than having a 44 win team.
"One thing that people keep ignoring is that free agency in the last 2-3 years hasn't really been a buyer's market."
Two summers ago was definitely a buyer's market. Last summer was a seller's market and this summer is a much bigger seller's market.
There were good players to be had at reasonable prices two summers ago. There were legitimate rotational players to be had for reasonable prices last summer. Hinkie wouldn't spend anything to acquire players who could play but was willing to pay considerably more than some of those annual salaries simply to acquire player salary credit to reach the minimum team compensation levels and escape having to pay bonuses. To the players and to the fans, Hinkie has been like Michael Corleone over the past two years: "I give you nothing."
I know it's summer league but Okafor just dominated the entire Knicks front line in the first quarter of this game. Can't recall this type of offensive post presence on the Sixers for a loooong time.
Okafor looked like he petered out towards the end of the game. Lost some lift off his shot for sure. Finished with 18 pts and 6 boards but was definitely worse in the fourth quarter. Got blocked a few times as well.
Add Scottie Wilbekin's name to the list of PG's who could get a camp invite. Played great tonight. Hit 6 threes and ran the team well.
Porzingis looked pretty good for the Knicks. He's so damn loooong. About 7'3 in sneakers with crazy long arms. Pretty shooting stroke. Had 7 fouls though and wouldn't have been in the game after the first quarter when Okafor was beating him up in the paint. Blocked Okafor a few times fwiw.
Looks like quite a few rookies can have a nice impact in the league this year.
Yeah he'll definitely get his shot blocked a fair bit, but his post game is so advanced for a 19 year old, and he draws so much contact, I have no doubts he'll be ok.
I want to see him spend the next two months working on his conditioning and free throw shooting.
I would agree with the minimum 3 year tenure. After all, David Kahn got 4 years with the Timberwolves. Oddly, though, coaches have comparatively little margin for error. We see coaches get fired frequently after very short stints. Recall that the Sixers fired Jim O'Brien after one year where he coached the team back to the playoffs.
If I had to bet, I would say that Hinkie is looking at a minimum five year tenure here unless the team is sold. He's set the bar for present performance so low that the team is quite likely to show significant enough improvement over the next two years even if those are losing seasons. He may have to show something in year five, though.
GM Brad Greenberg lasted 11 months, 5/96 to 4/97 (22-60, slight win increase; communication concerns). But of course Pat Croce played for keeps, unlike the current schemer whose name is far too prevalent and dominating, yielding primarily mythology and dreams, not sound, prideful basketball.
Current schemer is going nowhere soon as birds of a feather flock together. That is, as long as lemmings continue to half-fill the arena.
Thanks for that reference from the past. Wow! It must be said that he did draft Allen Iverson. I wasn't paying attention during that era (probably a rational decision) so I had to look him up. He now coaches in Russia.
The Sixers had 4 GMs in seven years during that awful period. How different things are today. Without the pervasive fantasy league and blogosphere presence then, all that mattered was your product's on-court performance.
You're welcome, Buke. But you really must stop feathering your attention in and out of seasons, lest you be labeled fan-alternate. Are you all in for the upcoming campaign? Or ya gonna ride with Milwaukee, Minnesota or Chicago?
I liked the way Croce recognized his GM hiring mistake and without ado axed Greenberg, took a new direction.
You're right. I am going to renew my League Pass this year. As awful as last season was, there were still games I wish I had seen. Hinkie doesn't have that much roster space for D Leaguer auditions anymore so it might be time to check back in.
Although I live in Minnesota and get their games for free with cable, I haven't fully warmed up to watching the Timberwolves. I guess 11 straight seasons without making the playoffs has something to do with a hesitancy to invest.
I actually followed Boston more than anyone last year. I like Brad Stevens and I was intrigued to see what Turner could do as a de facto point guard. He was pretty good at setting up the young bigs but he still has the same old limitations. At least Stevens has managed to keep his shots down most games.
Neither Greenberb nor Croce were as directly responsible for the team's succes as John Lucas. Innept he may have been, but the end result was Iverson. And I was never really all that impressed with what the Sixers built around him aside from one season. They wasted a lot of assets, brought in damaged goods and missed the opportunity to draft a second star in either Pierce or Nowitski (taken the 2 picks immediately after our flight brother, Larry Hughes.)
Actually, I think Lynch, Snow, Theo, Aaron, and Tyrone Hill worked really well next to Iverson - better than anyone else (including much bigger stars) during the rest of his career. Larry Brown really understood the kind of teammates who fit him and he understood that someone else should be the primary point guard.
You well know, tk, longtime watcher, since last title, except for Barkley's one strong playoff team and the Iverson New Millenium Ride, the Sixers have been all over the map and mostly unsightly. Since '83, Indiana has offered a better product.
We certainly have had our share of Kenny Payne over the years.
I'm not sure what has been more compelling, the recent non-NBA guys they've trotted out the past 2 years or the post Barkley cavalcade (Bradley/Dumas/Mad Max/Barros.)
For the last 30+ years it is fair to say that Shawn Barkley and Manute Bol are more representative of the Sixers than AI or Barkley.
They might have won that game without him anyway if they had Aldemir. Willie Reed and Cliff Alexander were just too big down low for the Sixers. All three primary guards (Jackson, McConnell, and Wilbekin) played fairly well and, somewhat surprisingly, so did Tokoto. Wilbekin really deserves a camp invite.
Brian - you gotta love Jason Levien. Was one of the original buyers of sixers, flipped it for a stake in grizzlies , and now an advisor to Vivek on the kings. That's a gunner.
Just sayin. usually a big chunk of the argument against adding veterans is that you don't want them blocking promising young guys. That's a non-issue here since the team is all dregs again.
It's pretty shortsighted to give some dLeague duo like Jackson and Wilbekin a full year of carte blanche playing time at PG again. Right as the team finally has a couple pieces on the floor who actually do need to be developed and who are directly affected by PG play.
Meh, most of these Hinkie specials go to future useless vets... If they even make it to be a vet. With the exception of Covington - who when signed was clearly the best player in the DLeague- none of these guys will ever be more than roster fodder.
I'm certainly for them trying to find diamonds in the rough... Bit at this point they should not have everyone on their backcourt fitting that profile. Although it is less an issue at wing than PG. A limited player who can shoot is still of use, bit limited players at PG hurt everyone else development... Particularly when your wings are limited as playmakers.
I'm with sixersfan here but not by a large margin. I think Stauskus can be a secondary ball handler and I am fine with trying to find a Pat Beverley IF that guard is known for D and can hit shots. I think Wilbekin at least gave glimpses of having those traits. But I expect him to be cut preseason.
I think as long as Okafor gets touches every play, we don't need a high usage (in terms of percent of play with ball in his hands) PG. I honestly think we should run our offense through the post in a two man game with Stauskus and Okafor.'
For a young team the PG position is too important for everyone else's development to leave in the hands of Wroten, Canaan, PappyJack and Wilbekin. I really am on the other side of Hinkie on this one. Even Ish would be a huge upgrade, if only because the few things he I'd good at help players around him.
But seriously, assuming they decided a year ago that MCW was not their man... Going through next season without an NBA quality PG is inexcusable given the plethora of PG talent put there. I understand there is no rush to have your PG of the future, but that is not a reason to have no PG on the roster.
This is a good opportunity for Hinkie to clear the air. I'm not someone who demands that GMs regularly provide access to reporters. But on large issues such as trades and injuries, they absolutely should. I don't even think Embiid's has the surgery yet, but I hope the team offers some clarification. Another break would be significant.
I'm honestly not sure why this is the straw that broke the camels back for some fans. I find the Pelicans situation to be much worse than not clarifying setback/break.
This type of stuff is tough to measure in stats but I I agree Hinkie could use some public PR moves as well. Gonzo's article was pretty good on the topic.
For me, he needs to communicate on this issue for a couple of reasons:
1) He fed the public wrong information if the recent reporting is accurate. I don't mind no information per se, but don't give me wrong information.
2) The organization is asking fans to take a giant leap of faith. You need to give something back in the form of communication when things go wrong. This is an example of things going very wrong.
In the end, I think it will come out that Embiid is solely responsible for this re-break, and they are trying to protect him. I don't know what he could have done, but this whole thing is getting strange. Regardless, this is a big setback, and it sucks.
"In the end, I think it will come out that Embiid is solely responsible for this re-break, and they are trying to protect him."
You are probably correct on this. There comes a point when the player has to own up to the consequence of his actions (e.g. being sent home, a couple minor twitter issues) and stop being protected by the organization.
I don' think it really matters how the injury happened, or whether it's a re-break. Either way he's missing another entire season. Either way, you'd have to be a fool to put any faith in this guy ever being a contributor to this organization. Three major health issues in something like 20 competitive basketball games in his career. The last two injuries coming without even setting foot (pardon the pun) on the court. They basically selected air at #3 in the draft last year.
Agree that the causal factors of Embiid's injury (or re-injury) are neither important nor interesting knowledge. As for Hinkie's communication style, fans should just presume by now that nothing will be revealed to them until management feels they have little choice.
To me the most interesting NBA tidbit of this new week is that the first full time female assistant coach in NBA history just won the Las Vegas summer league with a mostly no-name team. How fitting that this milestone was achieved by the organization that just keeps doing almost everything right.
I don't want my team giving up any advantages by releasing too much information. But to me, holding back information is different than sending out a statement that is completely misleading and disrespectful to fans. Maybe I'm asking too much.
I am generally in agreement with you here. At this point, just look at a Embid as a massively out of the money call option.
To me, the reality is building around Okafor/Noel frontcourt.
Covington and Stauskus screen as interesting rotational pieces. I would even add Hollis Thompson to that list.
Saric is a potential fit on any team - I am not optimistic he comes over next year.
We have cap space and no one wants to come here.
I am actually excited to watch the team this year because I have high hopes for Okafor. I do believe he has the upside to be a top 25 player. I think Noel is somewhere in the top 50 (harder to measure given his impact).
I don't think we fall into the bottom 3 this year and I don't think the Kings do either.
Therefore - our hopes of getting 2-3 top 25 guys depend on:
1. Our ability to get a guy in the 5-15 range who exceeds expectations to become a stud.
2. Okafor is good enough to attract a free agent in the future.
I think this team would have been more worth watching if Hinkie would have made a determined attempt to acquire Ty Lawson. Lawson is very likely much better than any point guard Hinkie could acquire either through the draft or in free agency over the next couple of years. Hinkie could have given up two protected first rounders and the team could be on their way to significant improvement.
I don't think the Kings fall into the bottom three either. The Sixers still could even if they win a handful or more games. There have been five seasons this century where no team had fewer than 20 wins.
I want no parts of Lawson. I'm a bit wary of players like him who deliberately undermine their coach. At least that's the word. I don't think he'd be a very good fit on a young team.
I don't know about the undermining of his coach, I just don't think he's a very good distributor, he's a piss-poor defender and he isn't going to age well. That being said, he'd be an outrageous upgrade to the current roster, so there's no way Hinkie would ever do that.
Zach Lowe had Jared Dudley as a guest on his podcast recently and asked him which team he would rather play for, Sixers or Kings. Dudley answered Kings without any hesitation, which I thought was interesting considering he spent much of the interview talking about playing time and mentoring young guys as two of the biggest motivational factors he looks for. The two reasons he cited were his disdain for the exploitative "Hinkie Special" deal given to 2nd rounders and fringe UDFAs in Philly as well as the fact that they're basically not trying at this point.
He recognized how dysfunctional the Kings are and how he'd get no PT/touches playing with Cousins and behind Rudy Gay but he'd still prefer Sacto because of Philly's indefinite tanking. Listening to him made me wonder just how toxic this whole thing has become and how many players feel the same way. Even if they wanted to add an above replacement level free agent now, would they be able to without having to significantly overpay?
I realize that Dudley is 30 and that no veteran that age wants to spend his twilight years in the league messing with a young rebuilding team if they can help it, but listening to his interview you get the sense that his answer would still be the same if he was 24.
Seriously? Jared Dudley. We're supposed to be concerned about what Jared Dudley says about the rebuild. And the fact that he would choose the Kings validates his opinion in your mind? LOL
I think you missed my point. I don't care about Jared Dudley or the non guaranteed multi-year team option deals Hinkie hands out. But you don't think it's a problem if the perception around the league gets bad enough that players won't wanna come here? Couldn't that hamper the rebuild down the line?
I think that perception is way over exaggerated. The national media (for both valid and absurd reasons) has made this Sixers team a target. When negative publicity piles on, the results are stiffs like Jared Dudley talking smack about other teams. As this team improves, FAs will have no problem playing here. That negative perception will disappear.
And I'm sure winning will make it easier to land free agents, but we're kind of talking about an "all things being equal" situation here. Like, the Sixers suck and Kings suck, but players would much rather go there. So if the Sixers ever do get good, other teams will also be good, so players might just opt for anywhere but here considering the team's reputation, and the fact that even a star player might not trust they won't just go into the tank and/or be too cheap to really put together a winning franchise. It's a valid point, whether you care about Dudley or not.
Yea. I see this as less about the Kings and more about the Sixers.
Jared Dudley is actually a reasonable guy from what I have heard from him over the years. He likes mentoring young players.
I don't think we will struggle to get free agents when it comes time to win. But I don't think we can sign players that will really move that effort either.
It's a moot point Brian. When the Sixers get good the negative perception will disappear quickly. And no, all things being equal, I doubt FAs will be choosing the Kings over the Sixers. This team is hiring the best sports science staff, they have a coach who players seem to love, they are building a reputation for player development, and they'll have a state-of-the-at practice facility to open for the 2016 season. But feel free to think that Kings will be the choice. Any chance to rip the team, well...you'll take it.
I remember when the Phillies weren't supposed to be able to attract FA pitchers when the new ballpark was completed because of all the bad publicity/negative perception about the short fence and bloop home runs. Players like John Smoltz were very outspoken about how they would never pitch for the Phillies, and wondered out loud why anyone FA SPs would. Two seasons later Phillies had the best rotation in baseball with players like Halladay and Lee happily running to Philadelphia (both by trades and FA signings).
My point is winning changes negative perceptions, and the Sixers will be a winning team. So listening to Jared Dudley, who by the way is on Sirius radio (NBA) shows all the time because he "gives his opinions", is a joke to me. Stop it.
He's the second guy to make a similar comment, his was a actually more restrained than Bledsoe's version. But I guess you're right about their awesome sales pitch. Not many teams have a closer like, "just wait til we show you downtown Camden in January!"
I guess we'll see who is right. In the meantime I'll keep a close eye on the opinions of Bledsoe and Dudley. They're obviously important in determining whether or not this organization's philosophy will work.
If the bells and whistles mattered, guys like Dudley and Bledsoe wouldn't be taking shots at the team and you'd hear comments about how great it would be to come play for Brett Brown. Players are aware of all the things you listed yet apparently it doesn't dissuade them from thinking negatively about the Sixers.
"This team is hiring the best sports science staff, they have a coach who players seem to love, they are building a reputation for player development, and they'll have a state-of-the-at practice facility to open for the 2016 season."
That stuff may be a selling point to players if it were a college recruiting visit but these guys have their own trainers, chefs, and nutrition experts already and NBA coaches come and go. As for player development, I can't really think of whom they've developed aside from coaching up some DLeaguers. If you have legitimate NBA talent on this team you're traded for picks, not developed.
What a mess in Charlotte. Interesting to read that one of the reasons they had turned down the significant offer from Boston was that they had not even considered who they would have drafted in the 16 range. So they had a year to prepare for the draft, and never once did they consider that a team may want their #9 pick and offer a significant package if Charlotte was willing to trade down. When putting together their draft board, they apparently only considered players in the #9 range. Even though this same scenario happened the year before to them when Chicago tried to trade up to their spot. Amazing and unacceptable.
I'm starting to wonder if this may actually be the case. There isn't much evidence one way or the other but what little speculative evidence does exist seems to corroborate this explanation.
If there was no re-break and his foot feels fine and pain free, then I'm sure Embiid would feel hesitant to go under the knife again. He probably sees himself becoming sort of the forgotten man if he misses another season for what he may deem an elective procedure this time around, and the league & his career just passing him by (Sixers even drafted his replacement already). With as many specialists as he's seen about this issue he may have just latched on to the opinions of the one or two who may have told him that he doesn't "need" the surgery this time and can take his chances playing on his foot the way it is. Hinkie and co. think otherwise and that might explain the puzzling "Trust me or trust the process" hashtag that people were gossiping about. Hinkie himself stated something to the effect of 'the experts don't always agree' a while back if I recall correctly.
The surgery statement came out, when, like a month ago? saying he'll have surgery within the next 7-10 days (which was stupid by the way, putting a timetable on something when you don't have all your ducks in a row). So this leads me to believe that everything was ready to go except maybe Embiid.
So the question becomes, what should the team do at such an impasse*? They can't force him to have surgery and trading him probably brings back a top 15 protected pick at best, not to mention the embarrassment in the unlikely event that he manages to put together a good career for someone else. So the remaining option would be to play him and closely monitor his minutes. If something goes wrong, you have the surgery I guess. which is what they were trying to do all along in the first place and it's not like the team will be competing for the playoffs this season anyway.
*P.S: I get most of my Sixers news from here and Twitter so most of this is conjecture/made up. I could be missing something (or a lot) in my take.
The Jason Thompson trade was kind of dumb. They took on about $2 million in guaranteed salary, saved Golden State a boatload of money and in return only received a pick swap that will most likely not convey.
I think Wallace only has this year left on his deal though while Thompson has 2 years left. I don't think it was a dumb trade, just a bigger win for GS than Philly. I'd rather any extra minutes go to Holmes than Thompson anyway. Plus it's feasible that OKC finishes higher in the standings than Golden State. Not likely or significant, but possible.
Also, pretty sure Golden State sent Philly cash as part of the trade and I read somewhere it was the max allowed (~3 mil). I think these types of deals are important to Harris. As long as Hinkie keeps finding dollars to keep them in the black, Harris will keep giving Hinkie rope to continue his experiment.
2 NBATV games on the season, nothing else "national". They have 4 Thursday night games, so I guess those could be on TNT, but probably just the other game, which is sometimes on NBATV, I think.
19 back-to-backs
1 b2b w/ both games at home
3 b2b's w/ away/home, which is a disadvantage.
I've seen worse schedules, not that it matters much.
@SpearsNBAYahoo The Atlanta Hawks have hired former NBA player Malik Rose as manager of basketball operations, a source said. It will be announced next week
I'll put it at 25 wins. Though I think there's a decent chance Noel gets moved this year for a pick, so being stuck in neutral at like 19 wins wouldn't shock me. Okafor is probably worth a handful of wins, I expect him to have some nights where he scores 30+ efficiently.
25 sounds about right. They were a solid defensive squad last year, but I think Luc was a big part of that and will be missed. But their offense should be much better, meaning at least passable as compared to last year's historically bad.
A lot depends on what they get from the PG position. Ish stabilized that position last year, and right now PG could be a bit of a disaster- which would hold down the win total. Poor PG play leads to live ball TO's and bad floor balance- meaning lots of fast breaks for the opposition. It undermines the notion that you can have a solid defense, since you are spotting the opposition too many free points.
With their improved post scoring and shooting I could see this team winning a fair amount of games in the East if they can execute offensively. But just don't see Wroten/Jackson/Wilbikin/Canaan as players who can lead a young team and run an offense. Ironically, even though I'm not a huge MCW guy, I think if he was on the team this year they would be looking at 30 wins or more.
I think next summer will tell us a lot. The team could be potentially adding Embiid, Saric and 4 first round picks. But there won't be minutes for 6 new rotational players, so I'd expect that a much bigger move would be in the works. But maybe neither Embiid or Saric are available next year.
Salute to Chocolate Thunder, Darryl Dawkins, who passed away today at 58. Broke backboards, gave his dunks names, and was all around one of the most fun Sixers ever.
He also was kind to me as a 10 year old when I approached him, alone, to get his autograph. He said, "I like a kid with spunk," and that compliment has stuck with me to this day.
Sign Kendall Marshall. He's a low usage guy who can catch & shoot and is good at getting guys involved, which should go a little toward player development.
He turns it over a ton, moves like lava, and is coming off an ACL, but at least he'll know how to make an entry pass to Okafor and find a cutting Grant or Noel.
Not that it matters, but I still don't see why they won't/haven't re-signed Ish Smith. 6+ assists a game wasn't too shabby considering the garbage he was passing to.
The whole 'player development' thing is a bunch of hogwash to me anyway.
I wouldn't be opposed to re-signing Ish. My guess is that he doesn't want to go for the Hinkie Special considering he's a 27 year old journeyman who can always manage to find work elsewhere.
Marshall is 3 years younger and is arguably a better fit though. He shot 39% from 3 and 45% overall last season before he went down, while Smith was 40/31 mainly going to the hoop and shooting twice as much (per 36: 17.1 FGA to Marshall's 8.7). Their measureables are pretty different too, with Ish being undersized while Marshall having enough size to where you can sometimes hide him on a slower wing defensively. Ish may be the fastest guard in the league and Marshall is among the slowest but the offense should slow down this season on account of Okafor anyway, and Marshall has an excellent assist % himself.
As for player development, I agree that it typically doesn't make or break players in the long run (if it does, then the entire roster is completely screwed playing in this dumpster fire), but I do think it makes a difference. Even just looking back to last season and the difference Ish made for the offense, particularly for Noel, who had a stretch where he went from abysmal to "worth keeping on the floor for his defense" because Ish figured out how to spoon feed him on the offensive end.
The offense this season should be based around Okafor, with Stauskas, Covington, and Hollis spacing and I think a guy like Marshall should be able to facilitate a lot of it by feeding the ball down low and finding the shooters on the perimeter. I'd rather they have a point guard who sucks but might make the guys who matter play better, instead of one who sucks and doesn't make anyone better (like Tony Wroten).
Yeah I've seen enough. There's a decent chance he's completely useless if he lost a step. You're saying be more patient? He doesn't strike me as your type of player - can't shoot, coughs it up, low IQ. Kind of surprising.
Team leaves me speechless. At least until things ramp up. How anyone can be excited about current conglomeration is beyond me. Okafor will score. What else?
Tony Wroten: Thad's kid brother. Not a big talker. Energetic. Competitive. Can run. Heavily leans left. Back rim shot. Sees floor, unfortunately, it's the portion immediately beneath him. Relentless in attack. Defense, so-so. Youth on his side. I give him another year to show. Toughness goes a long way. Not many on roster as dynamic. Injury effect? Who knows.
Ish Smith signed a camp deal with the Wizards. It's a non-guaranteed contract though and according to the article it's unlikely he makes the final cut so we could see him again.
I do not understand why Hinkie didn't sign Ish. In my mind he is perfect for this team. He is not going to win games for us by himself (we don't want that this year anyway), but he is an excellent distributor. From the interviews I've seen and from quotes by other players about him, he seems to be level-headed and a good vet presence in the locker room. I don't see a downside to signing him to a league minimum deal. Why are gunners like Wroten and Ike Canaan still on this team, and Ish isn't?
Well... it has been a long offseason... but in a couple weeks we have practice.... and a couple weeks after that weeks after that we have games... and weeks after that we establish our playoff contention.
Ok, ok, maybe not. But I am ready for some basketball. I am ready for Okafor to be the hero that Philly never deserved.
Brian is allowed to hate on Hinkie, because frankly, it is very easy to find misses in his strategy....annnnd not so easy to find successes quite yet.
DollarBill if you don't like Jahlil... I will be incredibly disappointed. I get his flaws, but he plays like a man. Footwork and Body.
sixerfan - game commentary is needed. You are a symbolistic glue of this all.
anomie - contiue your cause. I respect your concern and dismissal of conventional appreciation. I ultimately agree with your thoughts but take the more optimistic view. You focus on our jack shit PG situation while I focus on our (hopeful) frontcourt dvelopment.
tk, STAN, thesix, buke, sharone.....keep it going.
It is almost time for hoops - and I want a crew together when this team is mediocre (and above). We will inevitably be mediocre soon enough....
Three off seasons have passed by so far in the Hinkie era and I thought there would be more semblance of a roster by now. But at the same time I can't see what more the Sixers could have done other than be more fortunate. I guess that's the risk you take when your strategy is tanking.
3 seasons of missing the playoffs, Jrue Holiday, Thaddeus Young, and the most cap space in the league and this is what you get:
Jahlil Okafur
Joel Embiid
Nerlens Noel
Dario Saric
Nik Stauskas
Jerami Grant
Jakarr Sampson
Robert Covington
Hollis Thompson
LA's top 3 protected 1st round pick
Miami's top 10 protected 1st round pick
OKC's top 17 protected 1st round pick
Sacramento's 2018 1st round pick
None of that looks like championship potential, so I guess our hope relies on the 2016 NBA draft.
I'm not sure if Joel Embiid will ever play. Even if he comes back, he might just end up being a statue that takes a lot of jumpers.
Dario Saric might not come over till 2017 and I don't know how is game is going to translate.
Nerlens is always going to be offensively limited and light framed. Let's hope that his defense can be elite.
Jahlil Okafur is a little pudgy and can't shoot. His defense and rebounding will be average at best. He's going to struggle a bit on offense because he's not a consistent shooter and not standout athletic. I wonder how his offense is going to develop because he is supposed to have a high basketball IQ.
Part of me wishes that the Sixers would have taken Porzingas or Hezonja instead.
The Sixers don't really have much. But at this same time it's more than what Boston or LA has.
Here's hoping that the 2016 draft is going to bring the Sixers an elite wing player.
I expect the Sixers to win 30 games this year. They might end up being less depressing to watch than the Eagles. lol
Essentially I do agree with Brian. I think that Hinkie's goal is to keep costs down, keep salary flexibility, and accumulate future picks in order to make this team potentially attractive to a prospective buyer who may actually want to field a competitive team. Hinkie is in no hurry to field a competitive team but the steps he has taken may give a future owner more options than most.
Having said that I do think there are reasons to watch this year. I'd like to watch the development of the front court and Kendall Marshall could be the right kind of point guard for this type of team if he is healthy and fully functioning. Out of disgust I cancelled my league pass last year but I'll be reinstating it this year.
Word. I just looking forward to hoops again. I'm still crushed by the Embiid fiasco, but it is what it is. Onward and upward...well...onward for sure(!).
Things to look forward to:
1) I was encouraged by what I read about Stauskas play over the summer against decent competition.
2) Okafor should be a beast. He wants to succeed and wants to be great, so it will be fun to watch his development. I will set his FT% line by March at 65%. I think he can do that this year. You want the over or the under?
3) The PG situation is a well documented dumpster fire. The long-term answer is not on the roster, but maybe one of these guys is a good short term solution.
4) Why can't I get it out of my head that Rubio will be a sixer this year?
Anyway, I look forward to the season. I respect everyone's opinions on this site and am happy to have a place to contribute to the discussion.
Obviously there'd be room for Jackson to beat out Scottie Wilbekin for example, or for Tokoto to take Sampson's job, but he's kind of like this year's KJ with the contract and I don't think anyone is trading for him. Wood might also benefit more from Delaware.
Based on the quotes, I like Okafor's attitude thus far. He is not associating himself with "the team" or any of the players on a regular basis. It is not a buddy/buddy think with Noel. He wants to prove he can do it in the pro's. He often refers to his ability as an individual. I personally don't see anything wrong with this (right now) and ultimately think that is what the team will need to properly turn around. And I don't think this is intentional selfishness - I think he has a chip on his shoulder and does not want to associate with the previous losing culture.
Whether he can compete, let alone dominate, remains to be seen. But I have faith. And sure enough, I am ready to settle in for another season of this stuff.
There's quite a few things I want to pick apart said by Jahlil, but first I'll ask this - at what point did the losing culture become "previous"?
He may not want to associate with it (according to you), but it's getting ready to slap him right upside the head. He won't have to worry about associating with it, because he will soon "be" a part of it.
I don't think this team will start winning a healthy percentage of games until this management sells the team. I don't see any other way to interpret what they are doing (continuously kicking the can down the road while maintaining a bargain basement roster).
To a prospective buyer, this management can offer the following:
1) large amount of salary cap space;
2) no impending costly contracts with the possible exception of Noel in a few years;
3) future draft picks that can be drafted or traded (I fully expect Hinkie to postpone at least two first rounders if he ends up getting four this year).
Business are priced based on expectations of the future, not past or current results (except to the extent that they provide a basis for future expectations). The stink of Hinkie and Harris probably will not carry over to a subsequent owner and the way they are doing things makes this franchise potentially valuable to a future owner.
really? that seems in direct contrast to what Hinkie was saying about his newest protege
"Not much surprises me about (Okafor), but the thing that does is that, for such a high pick and someone who has been the best player of his cohorts since he was 12 or 13, he's really team-oriented. He's really into his teammates, he's really into what the group is doing. He's not on any island, not doing his own thing. He's concerned with the guys and being one of the guys. And he likes that."
Point guard position is going to be painful. Canaan and Wilbekin were as expected....bad.
Okafor has looked very solid despite having obvious flaws in his game. He isn't getting great position, but knocking down some solid midrange shots and finishing when he has a look. Encouraging on defense given how low expectations are.
Noel looks very good to me. Maybe biggest upside surprise. Its still not smooth on offense, but his activity is felt everywhere. Rebounding better...lets see how that goes.
Covington very quiet. Hopefully he finds his way into the game. I actually think a point guard is the link between making Okafor and Covington get the most out of each other.
Thompson hitting his shots. Encouraging.
Grant still oozing with talent but just not there on execution.
remember to draw conclusions on Okafor's career based on his first 30 seconds.
Looks like Canaan vs. Wilbekin for starting PG on opening day. I think McConnell & Jackson are already good as cut due to being hurt in addition to awful.
Funny you say that - last night I was thinking that he was reminiscent of Drew Gooden shooting all those mid-range jumpers.
He will eventually reach Turner levels of earthbound-ness as he becomes more exposed and gets his shot blocked at a more than normal rate. His earthbound tendencies along with his pudginess will hinder his rebounding opportunities too, ala EB.
I too liked what I saw out of Noel tonight. He still has a lot of work to do on the offensive side, but the game has slowed down for him on the that end. He knows what he wants to do, and he has a clue now on how to do it. He was impressive. FT looked real good.
Okafor was solid too. He will learn quickly that many of the low-post moves he was able to make at Duke won't work in the NBA, but he looks like he'll have the talent to adjust. That jumper will be a good friend if he can make it consistently. Don't think he made it to the line once however.
Wilbekin looks like a an f'ing radio guy running around in one of those MTV-celebrity-NBA promo games. Holy shit he sucks. PG position is going to be so tough to watch. They'll make a move. Hope it's a good one.
Honestly...who cares about Ish Smith? Was he better than what we have? Yes. Is that saying much? No,
And why is it a "BS Hinkie special"when the Sixers sign a player to that type of offer, but business as usual when Ainge does it, or any other GM for that matter? Way to cherry pick.
"who cares about Smith? who cares about Dudley? who cares about Bledsoe?"
This team is like the drunk guy at the bar yelling "That's fine I didn't want you ANYWAY!" at every mediocre looking girl who walks away after he tries starting a conversation. The unabating rejections should serve as an indicator that no perfect 10 (top 10) girl (player) is going to fall into his lap (sign) anytime soon, but he doesn't see that because the booze (Hinkie infatuation) hasn't worn off yet.
"why is it a "BS Hinkie special"when the Sixers sign a player to that type of offer, but business as usual when Ainge does it"
I'm a Sixers fan so I don't care about Ainge. And really, what other GM has systematically handed out these deals to the point where it's more or less a team policy, and systematically reduced his team to joke status (to every neutral observer) around the league? Other GMs have been known to rebuild rosters without completely abstaining from basketball for 3+ years.
Thanks for posting that. I was asking a month or so back on this very thread why wasn't Ish re-signed after dishing out 6+ dimes a game and penetrating in the lane and drawing and dishing at will. Had no idea that he was offered and wasn't interested. Par for the course, I'd say.
Of course, the Hinkieites still assume that this big star free agent is going to want to come play here when even these low level guys by way of their agents advice want no part of it. And that's with bundles of playing time available and not much competition for said playing time.
I also thank you for the post. From a basketball perspective, I still do not understand why he's not here. He's the kind of player who is perfect for this team, because he is not going to add too much to the win total by himself, but he will make the bigs better with a pass-first mentality. Also from interviews I've seen with him, he has a good, level head on his shoulders and would be a good veteran influence in the locker room. Speaking as a partial season ticket holder, he also made last year slightly more watchable.
I guess he was/is asking too much, since it wasn't only the Sixers who he turned down.
I agree with all of this. I keep hearing the argument that his ceiling was low and "it is easy to find a backup point guard". But we have seen a revolving door of point guards over the last 2 years and Smith, in my opinion, massively outperformed all of them.
I don't think he can win games himself, but he can keep some control of the court.
Exactly. Re-signing Smith would have made both camps happy. The tanking people would get a guy who's bad in all the right ways and won't hurt the lottery odds, while the rest of us would get to see slightly better basketball and a point guard who can get the bigs involved and help their development as he did last season, which is something everyone wants.
Signing Kendall Marshall was a step in this direction since he too is a low usage pass-first guard who isn't winning any games by himself, but why not sign both? You insure against the oft-injured Marshall and ensure that a competent distributor is on the floor at all times. Play Ish when Noel is at Center so he can hit him on rolls to the basket and can play at a faster pace, and play Marshall when Okafor is in the game and the offense slows down & provide Okafor with better spacing and more touches (Marshall shoots better and less than Ish does).
But no, instead let's develop Pappy Jack and flip him for a second rounder.
Okafor struggling - 11 min 4pts/2reb 2/8fg
Canaan's probably looked the best through 6 quarters of preseason so far. 13pts/2ast/1to in the first half tonight.
Jared Cunningham is lighting them up - 21 points on 7 shots, 3 assists, 0 turnovers.
The point guard play is horrendous. I am really hoping that Marshall brings the old man game, limits turnovers, Andre Miller'esque. I will concede points to at least watch some normal flow.
The biggest upside surprises thus far have been Holmes and Christian Wood. I would like to keep both of those guys and see what they can do. Holmes seems to have some Speights in him (without being quite the bonehead) and lets be honest, Speights was a real player for a title winning team.
Sampson has been mediocre. Perhaps I expected him to develop more of a fluid offensive game, but it remains the same awkward game.
Marshall
Stauskus
Covington
Noel
Okafor
Wroten/Canaan
Thompson
Sampson
Holmes
I think we stay in games with streaky three point shooting. I am hoping Okafor can provde more of a half court offense that limits our turnovers.
You put me in mind of a hopeless romantic. Always and continually holding on to however thin shred of hope that something, anything, will turn out positive amongst mostly a collection of rank garbage. When shit stinks, it stinks.
Not in so much of a literal sense, but more in a figurative way, Richaun Holmes is say, just your next slightly more athletic Lavoy Allen. Christian Wood could be Jarvis Varnado with a semblance of a shot. Meaning, these two newbies that you want a look-see at likely won't even be in the league in 3 years, if it takes that long. They're just the next scrubs in what has become a long line of scrubs.
I'm the biggest proponent of different strokes for different folks, but to look at these types of fringe players and think that they will somehow, one day turn into something and be able to help you in a 7 game series in the 2nd round of the playoffs is pretty much the equivalent of a pipe dream.
Just like your same unrealistic expectations with Jakarr, more times than not the players are what they are, never to become something more. Especially when you're always trying to take countless pebbles of chicken shit and expect to beguile the palate to believe it's chicken salad.
I mean, yes, I was looking for some positives. My commentary about the point guards and general play should have made it clear "this play is shit".
I will continue to look for the glimmers of role player hope while fully understanding role players mean nothing without talented players. I enjoy what Covington has become. The 1/100 guys who has become a competent starting player (or at least in my opinion). Whether you think Holmes is Lavoy Allen or I think he is Maurice Speights.
The early Iverson years were some of my favorites. Watching a team grow together. Sure I would love to be good overnight, but I don't expect it.
I will continue to take a more optimistic view on this team. While you will continue to point out that we have no chance of winning without a change of ownership.
No, Rusty. Nobody except blue chip guys from UK ever pan out. EVER. Eddie went too deep into his headies. Fact is, none of us know what those guys you mentioned might be. They'll probably suck, but hey Chris Mihm sucked. Wait lottery guys can suck too??
They might as well waive Jakarr and just carry 14 for now. People kiddin themselves about his upside. A 'defensive specialist' who's bad at defense...
Holmes could turn out to be something in the Kyle O'Quinn mold someday, so I'd give him minutes over Aldemir (who also needs to go), but his most realistic outcome is like.. Craig Brackins probably lol. In any case, he should still be the first big off the bench this year by default.
Christian Wood is like a poor man's Andray Blatche with less talent. Normally you'd want to stick guys like him in Delaware for at least a year but since there's no difference between Delaware and the back end of the Sixers roster, he might as well stay.
I wonder if Paul George becomes available sometime in the next year. what kind of trade package would Indy want?
Also I wish Hinkie would've traded for TJ Warren this off-season. I don't know how open the Suns would've been to that, but it seems like he always gets undervalued and he's a really fun player to watch stylistically. He's my pick for breakout player or whatever that award is called.
Man, please don't mention TJ Warren! I whined my ass off around here for Hinkie to take him. Really wanted him to take him instead of Dario Saric, hell I even mentioned one time that if he's your guy (which I believed in him at the time) you take him with whatever high pick you get from the lottery (ended up being #3). I would have taken him instead of Embiid and never looked back. The guy is full of nothing but innate ability and such natural instinct to play the game. Straight bucket-getter. If you look at a player and say that guy has a knack for scoring, that's TJ Warren to a T (no pun intended ha). He does it so quietly too.
The Suns wouldn't have been open to it though, that's one of the main reasons they shipped the Morris twin and some of the other players on the roster out of town so they could clear minutes for TJ.
Interesting to hear Stauskus talk about the impact Andre Miller had on his game last year.
Kendall Marshall certainly resembles the Miller style which is awful defense but a great distributor. There is something to be said for guys who can get the ball in shooters hands but also where the shooter wants to receive the ball.
I imagine this type of point guard has a bigger impact on one-dimensional shooters than anyone else.
Yeah, reminded me of how Noel valued having Ish as his PG.
Count me as one who would prefer they cut McConnell and Wilbekin and relagate Canaan to a bench small SG role... and hopefully sign Ish off of Waivers if/when the Wiz cut him. I'd be fine having a combination of Ish and Marshall as their stopgap PG's for the year. At least they would not hurt the development of their bigs and shooters the way their current PG's will.
I've been down on the Embiid pick since the beginning, and while I agree this article is a lot of noise, I think it does tell me that Hinkie should have done more due diligence on Embiid's attitude, not just medical evaluations.
This game was brutal. Too many of these guys are just not close to being NBA caliber talent. As far as the guys who should be in the NBA, Covington looked good on offense but my god he loses his man on the other end. Is he just not smart? He lost Porter on 4 out of the first 5 possessions of the game. How does that happen?
Thank you for the new post.
If Russell is available and we do NOT draft him, I will lose significant confidence in the "strategy". That said, I'd be willing to wager a sizeable chunk of money that he is the pick if available.
Lots of pre-draft activity with Vonleh, Lamb, Batum on the move. I imagine its only a matter of time before we are involved - lets hope it is a player and not an asset.
If we take D Russell, I want the second part of my two piece summer dream:
Danny Green.
Lots to discuss tomorrow. But I think taking Russell creates an entirely new dynamic. He can steal games with his skillset. This increases the likelihood of adding REAL players around him.
The Blazers are finalizing a trade to send Nicolas Batum to Charlotte for Noah Vonleh and Gerald Henderson.
I think we'll draft our starting backcourt tomorrow. Looking forward to a big day. And no doubt someone is going to fleece the Knicks.
If the WCS rumors are true, he is dropping like a rock. Word is that He is going to need foot surgery in the next year or two to clean out a previous injury.
Can someone explain to me what the fuck the Kings are doing trading Cousins AT ALL, let alone to a rival?
@WojYahooNBA
Sources: Lakers, Kings exchange framework of trade centered on DeMarcus Cousins today, discussions could intensify Thursday. Story soon.
Karl wants him out. Guess they think theyll look dumber firing Karl at this point than just moving on from Cousins. It's what happens when you are a shit organization and your owner meddles into basketball ops
On another note, how much of a pain in the ass is George Karl? Does everyone still think he's a good coach?
After having watched MCDUBfigurejax, Furkan Aldimir and Isaiah Canaan, I don't know why I don't have confidence in Acquisition Chief Sam Hinkie.
Tonight the Master of Winter Disasters will outsmart the rest of the league's masterminds according to his fervent contingent of boosters, including his dogs, Sad Sack and Sunburn, leaving only victories and playoffs participation and championships between himself and Springfield, Massachusetts. This started in May of 2013.
Just heard on radio moments ago, according to Chris Broussard, agents are telling the Sixers not to draft their clients.
~~~~~
Sleeper picks:
1. George Mason
2. Austin Peay
3. Harvey Mudd
4. Oral Roberts
5. Bob Jones
OK Dollar Bill, I'm putting you on the spot. Make your pick at #3. Who do you like?
I like Pepperdine Wave PF Harold Hangten and UC Santa Barbara Gaucho PG Miguel Pasdebol. Either one would improve Sixers.
Don't like Russell, especially after Holiday, Turner and Carter-Williams. Intrigued by the Flyin' Latvian (could be a player in a few year. I'd trade down to get 2 in 1st, Kaminsky and another. Sixers gotta stockpile talent. An Ohio State guard is an Ohio State guard, even though Bilas calls him a passing "savant." Please.
wouldnt mind russell going 2nd and then trading down
or just take hezonja, mudiay or porzingis at 3
I just don't want anything directly from the Celtics. I hate their roster. HATE their roster. Brooklyn picks are great but we need players this year.
i trust hinkie to not take their garbage, would probably have to be a 3 teamer so they can get back into the top 6
Agreed.
https://www.clippituser.tv/c/xbayq
I'm so numb to this played-out GM of ours and his basically no-plan shot in the dark approach that I don't even have any expectations or know what to expect tonight. Two years ago I felt this path was just gonna lead to 2 years away from being 2 years away and that's probably giving it too much credit at this point.
I do like D'Angelo Russell and particularly his vision and passing prowess, but I just don't see him being this needle-mover for say the next 2-3 years. Where I'm coming from with these feelings are, we had a so-so guard that didn't have trouble passing and with other things in MCW and he wasn't necessarily doing any needle-moving either. He was a stat-stuffer that couldn't shoot whereas Russell may be a better shooter but not so much of a stat sheet stuffer.
There's nothing but shit surrounding whomever they add it won't make much of a difference. Ain't no free agents of significance coming to this sad sack franchise either. They're just as far away from this hyped up 'contention' as they were the day Hinkie's ass got hired. Fuck him and the horse Harris let him ride in on.
I do hope they can snag Olivier Hanlan in the 2nd round though. I really like that kid. Rakeem Christman would be nice late too so I don't have to witness Henry Sims tired game.
If there's all this shuffling deck chairs by way of a bunch of wheeling and dealing tonight, it will be so exasperating and inexcusable and only add to my narrative, sadly.
Chad Ford just said intel has come in that Lakers will take D'Angelo Russell after hearing for the last month they would select Okafor.
If that happens, since I know nothing of this Latvian kid, I wouldn't be disappointed in the slightest if we took Justise Winslow.
REMINDER: they could take someone at 3 and trade him so dont freak out
so the Lakers are taking Russell now? that sucks.
Ah, nice to check in and to see how much more ludicrous and ridiculous you've gotten. Perhaps you should just let this die like your eagles blog.
was wondering if you were every going to check in again
ever*
Heh. i think quarterly posts pretty much qualifies as letting it die. What number do you have printed on your Hinkie jersey?
Alright, here we go.
Come on Flip, take Okafor. You know you want to
Towns to Minny. That's a team that bottomed out the right way, imo, and they're poised to rebound quickly.
and if lebron keeps wiggins they trade love for klay and give klay the max
im not giving them credit for lebron being a bad GM
The max for Klay is a better GM move than holding on to Turner and Hawes, adding a few wins just to make a few extra bucks in the Granger deal, IMO.
chaos is about ensue
Oh, and Karl is absolutely right in wanting Cousins shipped out of town. Never going to build a good team around him.
And with the #2, the Los Angeles Lakers select another excuse for all Hinkie lovers to hang their hats on.
take okafor and just auction him off
Or keep him, since your center isn't going to be playing any time soon.
I bet there's a trade here.
or trade down
Kenny Anderson and Danny Ainge...that's elite company.
Lakers probably finish .500 next year. That'll be like pick 14.
no they wont
That's your heart talking. They're going to add at least one big man in free agency, probably Love or LMA. Even Byron Scott won't be able to coach them to the bottom.
Okafor but i think they trade him
woj says they are keeping him
Embiid's done.
clairvoyant much?
That vintage picture they're showing of Pollack he looks a bit like Karl Anthony-Towns.
Poor Harvey, had to go out watching this slop.
3 bigs in 3 years. heh
they went BPA which shouldnt be a huge surprise
Ha! Trust the progress.
That's fine. Took 3 top 10 picks to land Al Jefferson. Good work.
4 top 12 picks.
Bilas is full of it. Okafor struggled like hell when attempting to pass out of a double team in ACC play.
Where's that commenter that said we draft our starting backcourt tonight? heh
Yeah...sorry I can't predict the future like you douche. Way to chime in after the fact.
Still a Hinkieite? Or are you still looking forward to the "big day"?
Or you just mad bro?
No I just love people that complain a lot like you. Keep it going.
Well, at least we've got the Lakers and Heat picks coming up that Hinkie stole...oh...what? Nevermind.
Hey, maybe Hinkie is being prudent and fooling us all by taking Embiid's replacement already.
looks like you were dead on it
Heh. At least the Knicks will continue to blow. Maybe the Sixers won't finish last in the division.
Somebody please help me with what the Hinkieites will spin this with? What will be their headline excuse for Sam the Man?
BPA, trust the process, nothing to see here, accumulating assets.
Yeah agree. BPA sounds about right. Figured that would be it. Look below for evidence.
what did you want them do?
right now they have no stars
he is going to take the best players until he gets a star or can trade for one
Fire the motherfucker. That's what I want them to do. This is a disgrace to the game man. He still doesn't have a star with Okafor either.
who would you have taken?
Already said it above. Know nothing of the Latvian kid so Justise Winslow.
you dont take him 3rd
OK, just like commenters told me you don't take Draymond Green 16th back in 2012 like I pined for.
I never understand that just because the "masses" say that this guy is "better" than that guy before they ever play a second in the league, so many are quick to fall in line with that thinking. Why are you and everyone else so sure that Jahlil is actually the "best" player available? You or no one else can be at this point. See how Winslow is impacting the league in 3 years versus Okafor. Eh, I feel like I'm having the Turner vs Meeks debate all over again. Oh well.
eddies' was far from the only one to like Winslow at 3.
http://deanondraft.com/2015/04/06/serving-justise-to-justise-should-winslow-go-1/
I think he's the 4th best player in the class
Well, if I was intentionally trying to lose, I wouldn't have finished with the 3rd-worst record in consecutive years. But I wouldn't have tanked like this for two consecutive years, so it's a moot point. i would've never been in this position in the first place, and my "rebuild" would be further along than square one heading into season three, and that's exactly where Hinkie is. No star on the roster, no star from this draft, the only real future asset(s) being their own picks because the Lakers/Heat picks aren't going to amount to anything. No objective observer can say Hinkie's plan has been anything more than an abject failure to this point.
"Hinkster got the best center in the draft 3 years in a row"? Is that suitable enough?
This guy looks like Shawn Bradley to me.
Could tonight be a resemblance of the start of the turn when the hordes of commenters finally realized Evan Turner was a true piece of shit? Only now their blind faith in Hinkie is crushed?
Eh, if you're still sucking on the Hinkie teet nothing is going to pull you off at this point. He'll eventually get fired, most likely by the next owner of the franchise, and whoever comes in will probably quickly turn the team around, then the Hinkie followers will come out of the woodwork and say it's all because of the years of hard work Hinkie put it.
So the most intrigue tonight holds. How many meaningless trades will Hinkie pull off in the second round? And which pick will refuse to sign one of the BS contracts Hinkie tries to hand out to second rounders?
Thought Hinkie would take WCS when the news of his health issues started leaking earlier today.
but you do need to try to move up for Justise Winslow if he keeps falling
yeah this is getting crazy. He measured 1.5 inches shorter than expected and now nobody wants him. Hinkie needs to get in there
MIA is taking him at
apparently teams dont trust his shooting
at 10*
Say that Embiid is semi-healthy this year, we do keep Okafor, are we still quote-unquote tanking again for another year? Like losing but not trying to lose or whatever it is that we've done for the last two years? Don't we still try to line the Hinkster up to, at some point, get his ever-elusive star?
lol at MJ if takes Kaminsky over winslow
@SpearsNBAYahoo The Bucks have acquired Raptors guard Grievis Vasquez in a trade, a source told Yahoo
@ESPNSteinLine Toronto will get a future first and the No. 46 pick for Vasquez, according to ESPN sources
@ESPNSteinLine ESPN sources say Milwaukee sends 2017 first-round pick via the Clippers and the 46th pick in tonight's second round to Toronto for Vasquez
the pick is lottery protected but still
@WojYahooNBA Washington has traded for No. 15 and will select Kelly Oubre, sources tell Yahoo.
@WojYahooNBA Washington will send Atlanta the No. 19 pick tonight and two future second-round picks for Kelly Oubre, league source tell Yahoo.
Really think Hinkie should've used the Lakers/Heat picks to get back into the top 10 for Winslow, or some other type of package for Booker.
Jalen Rose: "They (the Celtics) turned Evan Turner into an asset!"
.482 TS = asset.
@WojYahooNBA The Knicks are trading Tim Hardaway to the Hawks, who will draft Jerian Grant for the Knicks, league sources tell Yahoo Sports
how is tim hardaway worth a top 20 pick
really like the Delon Wright pick.
Houston should have taken Jerian Grant instead of Dekker
wouldnt mind trading up for rj hunter
Hey, you asked me up top who would I have taken.
I'd like to ask you the same question - because you didn't even have Okafor in your top 5. So you can't possibly agree that he was the BPA, right?
I mean, you didn't even have him in your top 5 a week and a half ago.
i would of went hezonja
OK, that makes sense. So why did it seem like you were defending Sam taking the so-called BPA and asking me what I would have done when you don't even agree that Jahlil is the BPA?
Jahlil wasnt my BPA, but im assuming since sam took him that he was his BPA
Gotcha. So since your views (and mine) don't align with Hinkie's do you still place belief in what he's doing? Would you say this is a case of blind faith?
yea i still agree with the plan
I guess I just don't get it, this has to simply be blind faith. You think that Hezonja has a better chance to be a star than Okafor but you're not in disagreement with what this guy did tonight? How can that be?
because after towns the guys that went 2-7(beside WCS) are similar enough in talent to me that you can just pick whoever you like the most
Ugh - this fucking sucks.
I have to imagine either Noel or Okafor is dealt post the draft. Embid has no value until he plays.
I am hoping there is a three way trade with the sixers getting Russell, Kings getting OKafor, and Lakers Cousin. I really like Russell.
So I am (perhaps was) a Hinkie supporter...but the "Smartest guy in the room" would know he is hurting value of his assets when he has too many of them that they cna't showcase talent.
This better not be the end of it...
Cavs trading Tyus Jones to Wolves for picks No. 31 & 36
I really hope we can end up with Olivier Hanlan.
that first round seemed extra long
i doubt they use all 5 2nd round picks but we will see
Agree - but Euros like Cedi Osman seem much more in play for us now.
MIN(for CLE) just took him
Christian Wood would be a nice upside pick
This is brutal - I hate Harrel but at least would like him in the 2nd. I am hoping for Cliff Alexander but sheesh
Guillermo Hernangomez because why not
Fucking joke - just wasting so called "assets" at this point.
Don't know who that guy we picked was, but I like Rakeem Christmas. Ugh
Richaun Holmes
what position does Richaun Holmes play? Let me guess, he has to be a big right?
PF not center!
Your exclamation point made me crack the hell up. Please tell me you're laughing with me and I'm not alone.
A center at 3
A project center stashed for couple years at 35
A PF at 37
LOL
another excellent draft.
The process has been trusted.
Hinkie just doesn't respect a guy that can shoot the rock and get buckets like Hanlan I guess. Fucking clown.
@Al_Iannazzone The Knicks are acquiring the rights to Philly's No. 35 pick Guillermo Hernangomez. They'll stash him.
they have like nothing to trade so this is interesting
also odd we dont know what they got yet
@WojYahooNBA Portland has traded Rondae Hollis-Jefferson and Steve Blake to the Nets, league sources tell Yahoo Sports.
@WojYahooNBA Brooklyn will send Mason Plumlee and Pat Connaughton to the Blazers for Hollis-Jefferson and Blake, league sources tell Yahoo
I'm disappointed that we didn't get Russell. But I can't really argue with taking the player they felt was the best available. At this point I just want good news on Embiid.
I believe there will be a trade at some point, but there is time to figure that out.
@HerringWSJ Knicks are giving up two future second-rounders to get Hernangomez.
Arturas Gudaits!
Those young buck Sixers fans in the stands look like just as much of a clown as Hinkie by wearing those corny shirts that say Trust The Process and some other small font up under it with Sam's mugshot on it. He's made them look like more of a fool than they may have already been.
When I was growing up, our games of kick the can never ever lasted this long. They were usually over in a couple of hours, at the most.
We get it Eddies, you're not happy.
When you're able to finally come around and admit you're not either, you'll be much better off.
How have you ended up feeling after the "big day"?
Well said, Eddies'
The sky isn't falling and the Sixers picked up a player who should help immediately, but I can't see why anyone should be genuinely happy about the state of affairs. At least I hope the uncertainty about Embiid coupled with the drafting of Okafor should quell any remaining illusions among those who were thinking that Embiid might develop into the next Hakeem Olajuwon.
I don't see how anyone can be happy about Hinkie drafting another Euro stash big man at #35 and flipping him for two future second rounders. If a fan hasn't grown tired of that kind of Hinkiesque move by now, I suppose there is no limit to his endurance.
I'm fine with the Richaun Holmes pick as he's a late bloomer with an NBA body who has outperformed expectations at the lower levels. He also may provide another useful body if they can't retain Thomas Robinson. I hope Robinson stays but I certainly can sympathize if he decides to leave.
There were multiple players drafted on the second round who were well worth a tryout. There were four straight point guards drafted from 42 through 45. Hinkie could have given one of them a shot. Iowa's Aaron White (drafted #49), a 3 at the NBA level, made an all Big Ten team all four years at Iowa and was that school's career leader in free throw attempts. Notre Dame's Connaughton (#41) is a great athlete and competitor. Tyler Harvey (#51) lead the NCAA in scoring and three pointers made; it's not like this team has too many good three point shooters.
Considering all the first rounders likely to fall to the Sixers next year, Hinkie could have used the second round to acquire players for a one year tryout instead of acquiring players for the primary purpose of being throw-ins for future trades. Putting together active roster personnel doesn't seem to hold much enjoyment for this GM.
JP Tokoto at 58
I like this pick.
Luka Mitrovic at 60
hopefully when i wake up more stuff will come out
Quite the fall for Chris Walker. I remember following Florida reports looking for info on when this guy will be cleared to play. Just never panned out.
Hah, another borderline comical draft in the way things don't seem fall into place. Okafor was simultaneously the BPA and worst possible fit for not only the current team but the worst fit for what I take their offensive philosophy to be... unless they plan on trading away both Embiid and Noel. Very reminiscent of last year when I felt like Embiid/Saric were the clear BPA and yet also the clear least likely to be able to help anytime soon.
I was going to ask at LB yest something to the effect: Is their a chance we have the right process and the wrong processor or are the Sixers snakebit? I'm on board with the philosophy and general approach of the rebuild- and am willing to endure a few years of bad basketball if that means concentrating assets for long term success. Hinkie appears to be able to acquire the assets, but turning those assets into something is clearly the toughest part for them.
So far Noel and Okafor are the only star likely players who will be on the court next year, and the other pipeline guys (Embiid and Saric) all combine to for a jumble in the frontcourt. While the future assets of LA, MIA and OKC picks all devalued through poor luck since they were acquired.
It sort of is what it is. IMO the process is fine. And ultimately we will have to see if Hinkie has the skill/luck to pull it off. Part of that skill is building relationships accross the league with other teams and agents to eventual have the flexibility to flip his current assets and cap space into a cohesive team. I think he has a bit of rope left, but he has put himself in a bit of an upstream situation either through his own choices or through bad luck.
Judging by Okafor's reaction to being drafted by Sixers, he feels like he, too, missed out on Lady Luck and a four-leaf clover. Think he and his pop were mentally set for purple-and-gold lotusland.
Tk, what color Kool-Aid do you drink? And does Sam supply you with the straws?
Make no mistake, "process" and processor are conjoined twins.
"Make no mistake, "process" and processor are conjoined twins."
Indeed they are. I don't see any other processor in the NBA exactly following this process.
"star likely"
really? I hope you meant starter likely.
its going to really hard to figure whats considered an over pay in free agency for the 2 and 3rd tier guys
some is going to overpay for a player but when the cap jumps the deal wont look as bad
http://www.si.com/nba/2015/06/26/nba-draft-philadelphia-sixers-gm-sam-hinkie-cba-loophole
Really tough to root for this team right now.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/three-years-radical-rebuilding-plan-162956471.html
Thanks for posting. For good measure, didn't read it til after I posted and typed the comment below.
Hinkie was hired 25 months ago. How is this 3 years in? The Bunkum trade 3 years ago killed the team, but that certainly had nothing to do with Hinkle- other then forcing the team into a radical rebuild by almost completely draining them of assets.
I love auto correct.
Sorry some of you guys are so eager to see this team fail in their rebuild. Strange world where some of the fanbase seems to enjoy the losing and another segment seems equally excited to tell you that the losing is proof that they are right about Hinkle being a farce.
Personally, I think there are reasons to question Hinkle and reasons for tanking. And I'd get zero satisfaction out of this grand experiment failing. Okafor seems like a terrible fit but a very talented player. And he is a Sixer now, so I hope he becomes a superstar for them.
The thing that frustrates me the most about one Sam Hinkie is his whole philosophy is basically based around a ton of abstract outcomes. The whole "we take the best available players" bullshit.
No one's certain which one of these young teenagers will be the "best"; no matter the position he plays, or overall. And to sit up at a press conference and continually refer to such nuggets as "I've said this previously..", "I've mentioned this at other press appearances..", and "We've been clear from the start..", is just hollow rhetoric that he's pushed all his chips in on the riskiest of all shot-in-the-dark-approach. Don't worry about any type of team-building or fit at all, just hell or high water your way to the motherfucking star, however rare they are to come along.
And not to mention, how much rarer you've made them available for yourself by winning 2 or 3 meaningless games for the last two seasons and coming up incrementally short of having the best odds to obtain that abstract savior.
I just don't see how it's automatically assumed that just because you "might" hit with a pick on a bonafide "star", you're suddenly well on your way to this mythical "champiohship/contender" status so many of the faithful long for; talk about abstract!
It takes soooo much more than that. Yeah, that might be the "starting" point, but hell, we're three fucking years into this already.
About time, if it even is so.
"[Thursday] night, we sort of just did one trade, in some sense, which maybe is a bit unusual. But you don't want to sort of be making moves to make moves. You want to be making things that you think will really moves things forward and that will really add talent to the pipeline in a way that makes sense. And if not, you want to do other things."
``````````
This is sort of what I was talking about. His schtick is baseless and hollow rhetoric. He parses words so well for some gullible enough to fall for it.
What the fuck is Sam really trying to say?
Did this cat actually say "move things forward"??? Did he really say that?... And no he didn't say "add talent to the pipeline that MAKES SENSE", did he?
Well welcome to the party Sam! That's some hell of making sense that you've virtually taken the same position player in 3 straight drafts.
You's the most making-sense motherfucker I've ever stumbled upon, you shrewd individual you. Only you Sam, only you man.
Bless all the acolytes sopping up and following your molasses.
You'll probably like this. His ghostly magic has run out.
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/trusting-the-process-how-the-rest-of-the-league-out-hinkied-the-sixers-at-the-nba-draft/
Hinkie should trade for Roy Hibbert
As for Okafor, the guy very well might be the best combination of low post scorer-passer in the NBA at age 19. He is also has legit NBA center size and should only improve over the next 5 years. I may not be a huge fan of the tradition low post game, but I still think he will be at very least a max salary guy during his career. I also think his defensive questions are Marjory overblown given his size and position. You can teach a guy with that size/length/quickness to be a net positive on defense.
As for Okafor, the guy very well might be the best combination of low post scorer-passer in the NBA at age 19. He is also has legit NBA center size and should only improve over the next 5 years. I may not be a huge fan of the tradition low post game, but I still think he will be at very least a max salary guy during his career. I also think his defensive questions are Marjory overblown given his size and position. You can teach a guy with that size/length/quickness to be a net positive on defense.
While I'm pissed about the draft (not getting Russell) and reality of our team right now, I am at least pumped that we get to see a real player hit the league next year. Call it what you want, but this is the NBA ready guy hitting the league. Doesn't always work (see: Evan Turner) but I don't even see pro guys with Okafors post moves and/or passes.
Here is my test. I don't hate Hinkie like many of you. I think I understand his "strategy" and how he balances best probability to be a great team.
You now have Okafor. Maybe you have Embid but I don't even count him. Noel could be a real piece.
All of those guys benefit significantly from a good wing shooter/defender like Leonard, Butler, Middleton but they will all be matched. They also all benefit from Danny Green - former D league - potential all defense team - elite 3 point shooter - Brett Brown player during Spurs era - young for his age given minutes played.
We've got enough lotto balls with Noel, Embid, Okafor. Our pick and Lakers pick may have upside next year but we don't need to avoid winning by not adding solid pieces like Danny Green.
If he does not want to play here then I will understand and be more annoyed - but damn Sam make a play. Give him a reason to come and help the cause. He has a title - get paid - be the vocal leader on a team of guys that want to be success stories like you.
Fair points. I think your post is very reasonable. I would not mind Green at all and I know you clearly value him very high. It would be nice to go after a player like him who can obviously help this team.
I'm looking forward to watching Okafor. Although I wanted other players for fit reasons, he's a great catch and there is not even an argument on whether or not he can have a long NBA career with multiple all-star appearances.
I don't particularly like college ball, and I'm not looking forward to "lottery watch" again. Believe me I'm not. But I laugh at the people who seem to be happy when things don't work out for this team so they can gloat about it. I just don't get that. But it is what it is. I want this team to move forward as well, but I don't think not getting Russell is the end of the world. I look at how Ainge had to beg people (Jordan most of all) to take a shitty Boston package of mediocre players and picks and I'm amazed at how some on this site feel that Boston is in such a better position than the Sixers. That roster SUCKS! Nobody wants those players. And don't think for a second that it was just Jordan who denied their shitty package. Ainge is smart enough to get Boston where they need to be, but I would honestly much rather be the sixers when it comes to deals. Just my opinion.
Neither team really has any pieces to brag about at this point, and the Brooklyn picks are much better assets than anything Hinkie has acquired.
The salient point is that Ainge was able to accumulate his assets without making his team utterly unwatchable for two years.
Nothing that Hinkie has done is even a tiny bit special or creative vis-a-vis other GMs, he's just had the most rope from an owner who doesn't care about garbage being put on the floor. Hinkie got stuck with Embiid - had to take him, got stuck with Okafor - had to take him, roster still sucks. In the meantime, he's made a litany of mistakes, big and small, ranging from holding on to Turner, Hawes, and Thad long enough to screw up his own tank while getting nothing of value in return, to the KJ contract debacle, to a half dozen other things in between.
His ultimate doom will be Embiid. Blowing his load on a broken 7 footer in the year where his tank and the caliber of the draft class aligned to possibly get that elusive superstar, then following that up by drafting a slow footed Euro who struggles shooting (almost a good thing that Saric won't come stateside until 2018, there'd be no minutes for him in this haphazard rotation anyhow).
No, give me the Bucks, the Wolves, the Celtics rebuilding efforts any day. They're more constrained by owners who give a shit while still doing a better job than this loser.
Oh and can't forget cycling through damn near 50 scrub players over two years to find 2 replacement level one dimensional shooters. Another testament to Hinkie's talent finding abilities.
This will be year 3 of open court tryouts for the Sixers, let's pray that they find another Hollis Thompson.
Maybe the NBA busts them for some sleazy violation so they'll have to vacate their 19 wins, just for comedic relief's sake.
I'll give you the Bucks and Wolves. I like both of their rebuilds. But to say you want the Celtics rebuild efforts over the Sixers...I think you're a bit emotional right now and your dislike for Hinkie is clouding your brain. Give me one player on that roster that any GM in the NBA would value over Noel or Okafor(even Embiid for that matter)? And for the record, I like Ainge, and believe he'll get the Celtics back in legit contention.
I don't really get emotional about watching basketball. It's just guys playing with an inflatable bouncy ball. I'd say it's more about emphatically disagreeing that Hinkie is anything above an average NBA general manager.
If you surveyed NBA GMs, I doubt you'd find even a few that would value Marcus Smart or Avery Bradley over Okafor or Noel, but how many fans would prefer watching the Sixers over the Celtics the past couple years?
Both Philly and Boston are undergoing rebuilds in two very distinct ways. I would say the two teams have a comparable amount of future assets but Boston has been far more competitive and rewarding from an entertainment standpoint and will likely continue to be for the foreseeable future. All we've seen in Philly thus far is a controlled demolition and the novelty wears off pretty
quickly.
I don't know. I like to go on different teams SB Nation sites just to get an idea of what their fans think about their own teams. I especially look at Boston for the exact reason you mentioned. Both teams are actively rebuilding yet doing in completely different ways. I think both will succeed. But you may be surprised by the number of Boston fans on that site that view that playoff appearance as fools gold and a step in the wrong direction. You only think they are more entertaining because it fits your narrative. For you, it works. I have a different view. If you replace the two teams today I would despise that team. And generally speaking the environment is also a bit more forgiving in Boston based on the recent success of all teams in that city. Time will tell.
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/76ers_ordered_to_pay_Pelicans_3_million_for_not_disclosing_Holidays_injuries.html
Surprised no one has linked this yet. Question - isn't the maximum allowable fine around 1 million? If so, wonder did the Sixers increase their payment to avoid draft pick loss?
Either way, this doesn't bode well on GM colleagues and player agents holding the franchise, and particularly Hinkie, in a favorable light.
Don't want to piss off your neighbors and future kids and their guardians
Whoa! Hadn't heard about this. Not sure what the maximum fine that can be brought down by the league is, but 3 mil sounds mighty hefty.
Can't remember but read it previously somewhere, I think you may be on to something with the draft pick loss. Maybe that really is why the fine is so high. Does that mean it was self-imposed?
Not only does this guy portray himself as the smartest cookie in the room, but he's slowly but surely becoming an outlaw/renegade while acting like it. Not good. At all. He's shady as shit.
Who knows what the reasons were but it wouldn't be a stretch to guess that is why he couldn't manuever back into the 1st round, being that he admitted at the presser that he had no intention of adding 6 new players to the roster.
I was already of the belief that no free agents want to come here before this regime took over. There's no way in hell anyone would want to come here now. If it's not bad press after bad press it's that we've become the butt of jokes around the league. Total laughingstock.
If an agent has a comparable deal or close deal on the table it's pretty easy to see which one he'd advise his client to take. Concerning the logjam in the front court (if Embiid ever gets healthy), this worries me that other GM's would be reluctant to deal for our players because of their disdain for Hinkie and his now proven slimyness. Not to mention, that two of our bigs have previously had major injuries. Ugh.
Smartest guy in the room will adjust his approach if its backfiring as much as some suspect.
At times it is a GMs market, at other times it is an agent's market. In one year from now (or two), when the cap jumps, everyone will have money. Not ideal if our relationships remain sour then.
I can believe Philly might have been less than upfront after the Bynum trade. It wouldn't be a sour taste in Hinkie's mouth given he wasn't part of Bynum, but perhaps for the owners.
According to the press, this was a "settlement" and not a "fine". So by definition, doesn't fall under the guidelines of the NBA (or so I imagine).
I have said the same thing a few times now but I will say it again in a different way.
I believe in the plan. I am okay with the last two years we sacrificed "win's". I am disappointed with the roster construct after those two lost years, but I think we have a lot of flexibility going forward. I think another year of the same strategy would be unwise. Not pursuing a decent roster will create only more and more public backlash - and I think we still have some time to salvage face by adding a decent free agent or trade.
Broken record but:
Sign a Danny Green
Trade for a Nik Stauskus
I would be pleased.
Couple things.
The thing that irks me the most is this was blatant cheating. By the amount they paid, it was breaking the rules by way of intentional deception.
Are you positive on this being a "settlement"? The link says "ordered to pay", that doesn't sound like a "settlement", to me. Hopefully someone else can chime in and clear this up but I thought the max the league could force you to pay, whether defined as a fine or not, was 1 mil.
On to the strategy thoughts. While I totally agree on it being unwise to tank again (never agreed with it to begin with), it seems like he's basically forced himself to. I mean, how can he not?
Assuming Embiid is not in the picture, he's only got a one-way big on O and a one-way big on D to build around. If you just take into account that Jahlil will be such a plus for us on offense this year being that we had almost next to no post presence last year, that will add several more wins right there. Point being, we're not really going to be bad enough to pick that high (top 3) anymore going forward if Jahlil contributes as he should.
Let's just say we'll be bad enough to fall in the 6-7 range with Jahlil's contributions and improvement from some others. Your chances of getting any stars aren't so high anymore. If you add what you're suggesting in a D. Green or a N. Stauskas, you're either back to the 10-13 range in the lottery, or worst case you're right back to where this strategy was trying to avoid in being 8th seed playoff fodder.
Therefore, it would seem if you're in his position you have to stand pat and just throw Jahlil out there and let him take his lumps, and hope like hell luck hits you in the face by the time next year's lottery rolls around. Or, keep sitting guys with these miniscule injuries ala upper respiratory infections, sore this or that throughout the season hoping to indirectly affect your overall record.
Even though I'm a staunch opponent of this dreadful approach, that is how I'd probably play it if I was in his position. He's pretty much backed himself into this big-man-corner that he's in and there really isn't an easy way out of it besides rolling the dice on a tank again.
If he does try to wiggle up out of it by adding incremental needle-movers, he's going against everything he set out not to do from the start.
Again, this is taking into account how much he's pissed off the rest of the league and agents as far as his now-hindered ability to deal and sign going forward. Remember, he's sort of still the new kid on the block and a bad rep can be a difficult thing to shake when you're mostly surrounded by the old boys club.
P.S. He's never given a shit about the public or the resulting backlash, and rightfully so.
There are differences between 8th seeds. And there are different points in the build. While the hope is to go from 20 wins to 55 wins, it is extremely difficult.
Adding Green to get to the 8th seed may be a failure to you. But I think the free agent pitch to a guy next year might be easier versus what it would be after another tanked year. Being the guy to put the team "over the top"
I think the Bucks are at least an "intriguing" destination for free agents this summer.
You avoid mediocrity if it also is the definition of your future. I don't think being hte 8th seed with Okafor, Noel and (say) Green is the definition of future mediocrity. You have some picks you could move for another difference maker and cap space to offer an attractive young gard.
"I think we have a lot of flexibility going forward."
Yes, I think Janis Joplin and Kris Kristofferson explored that theme when they sang "Freedom's just a another word for nothing left to lose."
The "smartest guy in the room" may be able to adjust but we'll have to see whether he has sufficient time remaining. While I don't have too much doubt that Brian essentially is on-the-money with his view that Hinkie is mostly a tool for ownerships' avarice, I also don't think they would hesitate to throw him under the bus if NBA and public sentiment turned ugly enough.
I'd say you should just go ahead and give up on the second part of your summer dream. He's not likely to come here. He wants a winning team. Check out this quote:
“I know how this business goes,” Green said. “There's a lot you can't control. If I get a great deal, a good city, a good organization, a winning team — everybody wants to have that.”
http://www.expressnews.com/sports/spurs/article/Spurs-Green-exepected-to-be-hot-commodity-6342325.php
Suns to re-sign Brandon Knight to a five-year, $70MM deal
i might eat my words in a week if they go crazy in free agency but ill say it again im more worried that the lakers pick will land in the top 3 then i am about it being outside the top 7 or so
Agreed. Everything hinges on Aldridge. I initially thought that by drafting Russell, they had a deal in place with a big man, but maybe not. I still think they were foolish to pass on Okafor.
I'll put money on that pick not being in the top 10.
i dont see it
The last time the Lakers finished under .500 for three consecutive years was 1961. I realize past performance is no indicator of future blah, blah, blah, but it's relevant in that LA will always be a premiere destination.
They've got their lottery pick from this year, who looks ready to make an impact, their lottery pick from last year who was NBA-ready and absolutely no incentive to suck, considering they don't own their pick. Kobe's swan song will probably be a detriment, but they also aren't going to be led in minutes by Wesley Johnson. With no further moves, I'd put them at 30ish wins. No way are they bottom 5. When they add players, which they will, we're talking 40 and probably a pick around #10, at best.
The Miami and OKC picks are pretty much worthless, unless some superstar is forcing his way out of a situation and wants to come to Philly and/or Hinkie is willing to take a tremendous risk that he'll be able to re-sign a star (like the Deron Williams situation), and throws caution to the wind in a package sending our first, plus OKC, LAL and MIA first rounders out. Don't think that's very likely to happen. What's probably going to happen is we're going to finish somewhere in the 6-10 range, the Lakers will finish somewhere between 12-14, MIA and OKC will be out of the lottery and we're going to have to get extremely lucky to either (A) move up to a meaningful spot in the lottery and/or get extremely lucky and find a star in the mid-late portion of the lottery/first round. Outside of that, Hinkie's grand plan already has it's big splash from the lottery.
Of course, he could get extremely lucky and Okafor could get hurt early in the year and we could be in the bottom 3 again next summer. That's probably best-case scenario for this "process."
It could happen but a lot of things would have to go right for LA to even have a fighting chance at a playoff spot next year.
Do you even like Randle? All I see is an undersized PF that can't shoot, can't make the right pass, and can't defend or rebound.
I wouldn't bet against you.
Ed Davis
Love/Aldridge
Tobias Harris
Kobe
Clarkson
Russell
Hill
Randle
Black
is a relatively solid team with depth.
Meant to ask this even before the draft, but if by 2017 this team has yet to crack 30 wins and no superstar (rising or established) is on board, 1) does Hinkie get fired and 2) if yes, will he ever land another GM gig in the league?
1) Quite possibly.
2) No. If #1 happens, this will be Hinkie's last GM job because he will have been an even bigger disaster than David Kahn.
No.
The team is not running at a financial loss.
He's trying to sell the team and get a substantial return on his initial investment.
He's willing to go at status quo until the team can get a young championship core like the OKC Thunder. I bet he builds a new stadium with public money in Camden but still calls the team the "Philadelphia 76ers". Similar to how the Detroit Pistons are located in Auburn Hills. Camden is less than a 10 mile drive from the Wells Fargo center.
The Sixers have a long term lease with the Wells Fargo Center. So Harris has the time to wait.
Hinkie is the perfect GM for Harris. He keeps costs low, doesn't take big risks, he makes solid draft picks, and his aim is championship or bust.
It would have to be at least 5 years of consecutive colossal bad draft picks to see Hinkie fired.
"He keeps costs low, doesn't take big risks, he makes solid draft picks, and his aim is championship or bust."
I don't understand that...he just sat there and took Okafor at 3. Billy King could have done that. His big hallmark pick the previous year at the same position will likely never have a meaningful career, so neither "doesn't take big risks" nor "solid pick" applies. And Noel is a good defender, I'd grade that one as "meets expectations" for a 6th overall pick.
"big risk" is the wrong term. Taking Embiid, Saric, and trading Jrue were big risks. What I meant was avoiding potential franchise crippling moves that would take away future picks and straddle the team with a high payroll and no cap space.
Billy King would have traded for Rudy Gay and signed someone like Al Jefferson to a huge deal.
If things got bad enough, the owners would throw Hinkie under the bus. He may be a useful tool but he is dispensable. I have little doubt of that and I'm guessing Hinkie knows that as well. If that happens, he'll be too toxic to get another GM job. He may be already too toxic to get another GM job.
I agree that Hinkie's prospects of finding another job would be pretty close to 0 unless he really turns this around. Word is that he's quickly becoming a pariah around the league - from agents to executives to league and now NBPA officials.
I think if another team in the future will want to try something similar, they'll find someone else to do it. Someone who can do it right and who's learned from watching Hinkie's mistakes.
I think a separate ownership group could pick him up and just think to give him less leash. If this Pelicans deal blows up with more details - that could be the end.
Nah, these guys don't rely on performance for their next job, they rely on connections. It's true in NBA front offices, but more so in MBA circles. Hinkie will get another job no matter how poorly this one turns out, and really, this hasn't turned out poorly at all from the perspective of a miserly owner who only cares about making money while minimizing risk. The value of the team has skyrocketed under Hinkie's care, they've turned a profit without investing much at all.
I seem to recall that you were favorably inclined toward drafting Jeff Withey a couple of years ago. The Pelicans didn't extend a qualifying offer to him so he is unrestricted now. Would be a good pickup for Hinkie now that he's cut Sims loose and Embiid is doubtful.
It's crazy how they bought the team for $287 mil and a couple years later it's valued at over $700. All they did was buy the Sevens and bring in Hinkie to kill the payroll.
Seems like you could even aggressively mismanage the team on purpose and still watch the value double within a few years.
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-eight-biggest-nba-free-agency-questions/
im sure it was just a leverage thing but to get him to say yes to a meeting is a nice step
https://twitter.com/Chris_Broussard/status/615898983748235264
http://www.nba.com/sixers/news/150630-sl-rosters
all of this is from woj
DeMarre Carroll has agreed to a four year, $60M deal with Toronto
The San Antonio Spurs have traded center Tiago Splitter to the Atlanta Hawks
The Nets have agreements now: Thad Young (4 years, $50M) and Brook Lopez (3 years, $60M). Both deals w/ player option.
Mike Dunleavy Jr., has agreed to a three-year, $14.4 million deal with the Chicago Bulls
Goran Dragic has reached agreement on a five-year, $90 million deal with the Miami Heat(player option after the 4th year)
danny green back to the spurs, four-year, $45 million
he left a ton of money on the table i think
Rusty is probably crushed.
Haha you nailed it. Really disappointed in that outcome.
I have been generally supportive on the moves for the past two years. I didn't agree with each of them but I liked our setup going into the lottery.
I am becoming more critical of the decision making since the draft and especially seeing Zach Lowe (respected) say things such as "haven't heard the sixers mentioned once today".
I think there needs to be a shift especially with the ongoing issues in the press with the Pelicans, agents and even players. You do not want to piss off everyone because the world is significantly more relationship dependent then most think.
I don't subscribe to most of the conspiracy theory stuff on here - but I think the dependency on luck is showing its downside.
Hinkie mentioned in the MCW deal that a lot of people run from uncertainty while he likes it. This was in relation to where the Lakers would pick. The obvious counter is that value is what someone is willing to buy something for. If he is the one spending most on uncertainty - then perhaps he is overvaluing it. It would appear that was the case with our lotto outcomes and the ongoing embid issues. At some point having something definitive is worth a lot more.
I believe we wasted a few second rounders which defeats the purpose of having 6. I liked our second round last year so perhaps had unrealistic expectations but then this argues the point of the vale of a 2nd rounder to begin with.
We know we have 3 big men that all have potential to be starters on good teams - maybe even stars on good teams. Adding good contracts will help their development AND open up more options for the future.
Look how easy Tiago Splitter was just dealt. A good contract can be moved. We need to at least have discussions with players and not start from scratch next year.
I now expect nothing over the summer and a logjam to start the year. A logjam is likely to deteriorate value in the bigs - either we need to trade one or one doesn't get enough time to showcase.
Stauskus and Cory Joseph at least have the feel of effort if added to the team. My expectations are low - Green was a dream (well after realizing Leonard and Middleton were a pipe dream)
I'm excited about Okafor but I'm really worried about ever having a real team.
Not to mention - we have cap space this year which everyone will have next year. Asset that is wasted in my opinion.
the magic offered paul millsap the max( 4 years 80 million)
amir johnson to boston( 2 years 24 million)
tyson chandler to the suns( 4 years 52 million)
kyle singler to OKC( 5 years 25 million)
https://twitter.com/Mike_Bresnahan/status/616344498944151553
https://twitter.com/Mike_Bresnahan/status/616344788439183360
@Mike_Bresnahan More LMA: He and Kobe didn't quite gel. It's a little vague, but Aldridge apparently didn't quite get answers from Kobe he was seeking
Not a good day for the Lakers. Two straight years now that they have plenty of money to spend, yet can't attract marquee free agents.
I thought there was some truth to the early rumors that the pick of Russell at #2 would indicate that a FA big has committed to LA. Does not appear to be the case.
Morey bout to use us as a salary dumpster again.
*Your 2015 Sixers Off-season*
Per Woj, Sixers trading "overseas assets" for Stauskas, Carl Landry and Jason Thompson. Sixers wanted Stauskas, agreed to take on contracts of Thompson and Landry
ill-timed comment on my part above I guess haha glad there's some signs of life finally
Yes, I will give credit to Hinkie for what are likely the most creative uses of cap space in NBA history.
One could look at this as getting something for nothing OR simply underwriting another teams' free agent signings. Instead of trying to compete in a seller's free agent market where they don't seem to be well regarded, the Sixers are simply purchasing other teams' past free agents. So, Hinkie is getting a desirable young prospect and two competent veterans at yesterday's prices.
I'm guessing either Mitrovic or Micic are outgoing since the Serb connection with Divac.
Also, Lowe tweeted that there's a pick incoming as part of the deal.
Zach Lowe @ZachLowe_NBA
Sixers will receive a protected 1st-round pick from the Kings, and swap rights w/ Sacto in the 1st round of two other drafts, sources say.
Or is it Saric?
Stauskus !!!! Victory!!!
Finally some positive news.
Zach Lowe says he's hearing the deal could include a Sacto draft pick as well. Wonder who the overseas assets are?
Nice haul for Hinkie. I wanted Stauskas in that draft. Can he still play summer league next week?
he was going to play for the kings summer league team so i dont see why he wont for the sixers
but he will probably just do the vegas and not the utah one
cooney says he wont so i stand corrected but he could be wrong
"In return, the Sixers will send the Kings the rights to "overseas players" and a future second-round pick, per Wojnarowski.
Per Lowe, the overseas player is not Dario Saric, the Sixers' first-round pick in 2014."
http://www.nj.com/sixers/index.ssf/2015/07/report_sixers_acquire_nik_stauskus_in_trade_with_s.html
That 1st should be in like 2019, cause of the Stepien rule
The acquisition of Stauskus is something I really like (as I ranted about above). The pick swaps seem great but I am not even focused on anything in that realm.
I know this is not the huge needle moving trade or signing that results in big wins - but it's a step in the right direction for real roster construction. I can get excited to watch Stauskus Covington and Okafor on the same floor.
Definitely a pick-me-up that was much needed.
I like the pick swaps as much as Stauskas. That's a team that might be winning the lottery if Vivek keeps this up, especially if Cousins forces his way out. They just cleared 2 years of cap space to overpay Rondo. Not sure who exactly they're bidding against.
derek does a good job here explaining everything with the trade
http://nba.derekbodner.com/2015/07/02/sixers-acquire-nik-stauskas-1st-round-pick-from-kings/
I had originally been high on Stauskus next to MCW. I thought their strengths offset their respective deficiencies in the backcourt.
I know this is an absolute long shot but also what player development is here for - in a way, Sampsons ceiling is ideal next Stauskus. If I know Jakarr can be one thing, it's a good permiter defender (potentially 1-3). He can share ball handling responsibility with Nik but also save his defensive energy for offense.
Again - long shot - but at least enjoyable to think about.
Probably the first solid move of the Hinkie administration...or at least the first move that might actually make the team better in the short term. I liked Stauskus and think he might be a guy who could flourish if given unrestricted, low-pressure minutes in an open system. Might be a guy who, even if he doesn't turn into a great player, could look like a very good player. The type that you could trade for more than he's worth.
Anyway, this move should soften the blow of the news that Embiid is going to miss the entire season which I'm sure the Sixers will announce over the holiday weekend, hoping people will be too busy partying to react to.
Who are the Kings clearing the cap space for? DeAndre Jordan would be a great fit next to Cousins. Might elevate them out of the bottom 10.
the rumored targets are wes matthews, rondo and monta ellis
Sixersfan mentioned the alleged targets. Don't forget that the Kings drafted Willie Cauley-Stein and probably expect him to play significant minutes.
As for the others, Rondo might still have something left despite coming off his worst season. I'm not sure why they would want both Monta Ellis and Rudy Gay. Matthews makes more sense.
word is Rondo is only looking for a one year deal to "fix" his rep/game after a that Dallas debacle. Then he would leave (in theory) if he has any kind of a year.
I just don't get why they agree to the pick swaps. I mean, they just gave the sixers higher chances for a #1 pk.
I guess the Kings are determined to not be competing for that top pick and figure that the Sixers' pick will be always before theirs. This whole transaction is a big bet by the Kings, but after 9 straight seasons of missing the playoffs I guess they figured it was time for bold ambition.
@WojYahooNBA Free agent Greg Monroe will sign a maximum contract with the Milwaukee Bucks, league source tells Yahoo Sports
@WojYahooNBA Monroe will sign a three year deal, with a player option on the third year, league sources tell Yahoo Sports.
That's a REAL nice get for MIL! Very happy for them in the sense that a small market team beat out both the Lakers and Knicks. Good for the league and that fan base.
Eh, Monroe doesn't really do it for me. Glad they beat out the Knicks and the Lakers, and pretty much no contract this summer is going to wind up being a terrible contract once the cap explodes, so good for them. I just don't think he elevates them all that much.
I don't like hm that much myself (especially for the Sixers), but I think it's a win for MIL and their fans. In the past they weren't landing this type of FA. He'll be a decent fit there.
Yea - I at least like the roster they constructed. Betting on Greak Freak or Jabari being a top 10 guy. Certainly a chance they top out and become the Hawks of the 00s - but it's worth the shot this early.
Mcw
Middleton
Gianni's
Jabari
Monroe
Henson
Ennis
Mayo
I feel like the roster compliments itself. I think Monroes offense is overlooked and Henson can potentially offset his defensive woes.
https://twitter.com/MikeSielski/status/616624354743484417
really hope this is real
its not
Gotta love the Lakers striking out so far in terms of the pick for us. Also liked seeing Monta choose Indy over Sac
ed davis to POR
3 years 20 million
Fairly low considering some of the contracts offered over the last two days. I don't know what it is about this guy (other than his mediocre free throw shooting). He just can't seem to get much respect.
@WojYahooNBA Phoenix has traded Marcus Morris, Reggie Bullock and Danny Granger to Detroit for future picks, league sources tell Yahoo Sports
The Pistons will send the Suns a 2020 second-round draft pick. So yes, the Suns are clearing salary cap space.
They didn't trade the other Morris? I thought they were conjoined.
The silver lining here is potentially less opportunity cost for being mediocre. If the Kings struggle as it appears they will, we can care a bit less about our own wins.
I am hoping that will be the approach.
Patrick Beverley is an interesting free agent. I never considered him a good fit, but the way things are shaping up, he could slide in nicely. I imagine Hinkie would wait for Aldridge to shake out because that will determine the Rockets next move (and likelihood to match Beverley and/or trade Terrence Jones).
Jerami Grant put on 10lbs of muscle this summer. Something tells me we would hear if Noel had done the same.
they are both restricted but i wouldn't mind corey jospeh or Beverley
"The silver lining here is potentially less opportunity cost for being mediocre."
That's exactly how I look at it. 2016 & 17 rights to swap picks with Sacto essentially frees up Philly to finally start building in a tangible, on-court way without worrying about losing out on high draft picks as much (provided the Kings are bad). I'll be rooting for Sacramento to implode this season and for my favorite team to win games.
Stauskas is just a bonus.
unless im reading this wrong the sacto pick the sixers are getting in 2018 will become unprotected if its not conveyed in 2018 or 2019
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/nba-free-agency-day-2-sacramentos-crazy-salary-dump-and-greg-monroes-milwaukee-move/
wade back to MIA on a 1 year 20 million deal
$20MM...LOL. He is so not worth it.
I was hoping he would leave so that pick would have a better chance of not translating next year, but he prob won't be the difference. He's missed over 20 games each of the last two seasons.
still feel like bosh and dragic get them in the playoffs
Lowe has mentioned Miami needed to pay Wade so their image remains intact when pursuing future free agents (ie Durant). He took a pay cut to win 2 titles with Lebron with the understanding theyd reward him down the line. They'd look bad if they didn't take care of their most important player of all time
Yeah I know the background. It's a joke. Tim Duncan takes a "pay cut" every year. Wade is so overrated it makes me laugh.
He may be overrated but Duncan is 39 and Wade is 33 and Duncan wasn't taking "pay cuts" at 33.
I don't think you can really compare their ages, as Wade has broken down a lot from age 28-32 while Duncan seems like he has continued to get stronger through his mid to late 30's. But both have had a lot of success playing next to other great players. But the Heat really struggled without Lebron last year- even when they had Wade. While I don't expect Duncan will ever be asked to shoulder that type of load.
My only point in that post is that nobody should expect Wade to take less money than he can get at this point in his career. Despite taking below market money over the last few years, Duncan has managed to earn almost $100 million more in NBA compensation over his career than Wade has through 2015. This is very likely Wade's last big contract.
DeAndre Jordan to Dallas. Big blow for the clip. Boston can't be happy either.
sorry...that wasn't addressed to you on purpose. But consider yourself informed!
Has offensive game of Shaq, Charles "Shaqkleford" that is. Brawny rebounder, legit defender though. Shoots fouls like Red Foxx. Or Moms Mabley.
from ages 28-32: duncan played in 54 more reg season games than wade. both players bagged 2 rings in same span.
Always liked Dwyane's competitive fire. In prime, a wicked streak of lightning. Deserves deferred money. Think of all the bums and frauds gettin' theirs in NBA thanks to shrewd agency and serendipitous timing. Wade is bonafide. With longer summer and Heat adjustments, a resurgence isn't out of the question.
@WojYahooNBA Patrick Beverley has agreed to a four-year, $25M deal to return to Houston, agent Kevin Bradbury tells Yahoo Sports.
@sam_amick Pat Beverley's deal with Houston, I'm told: $ 18 million over 3 with a 5 million non guaranteed year in year 4.
@SpearsNBAYahoo Rajon Rondo to sign one-year, $10 million deal with Kings, source told Yahoo
its ridiculous i even have to think about this but cause the kings are the kings they have to go through with the trade with sixers so they have the space for rondo and belinelli
I was scared to death that a couple FA signings wouldn't come through for them and they would back out of the deal. Anything is possible with that team. I still can't believe they made that deal. Sixers now have four chances at the lottery over the next two years assuming SAC doesn't make the playoffs. Although I could see the Sixers making the playoffs after next season and having a better record that SAC over the next two seasons. What a trade.
Or assuming the picks are top 10 I should say.
Using Brown parlance, is it a needle mover or just the continuing of a parade of gypsies?
Trade breakdown: 2 salary dumps (fatty pork chops), 1 rookie chump (burnt toast) and a contingent 1st round pick (sirloin to spam). Cost: the rights to 2 European dreamers, 2 Eurailpasses.
Widely praised, but I think it's partly due to Okafor grab and resultant happy party.
Hinkie, aiming for win 38.
This acquisition does seem to indicate a partial departure from the "parade of gypsies" strategy. He acquired two bona fide NBA rotation players and a soph with significant potential. At least he is giving Brown something more to work with this season. He'll still need a couple of potential gypsies in order to have available spaces for next year's anticipated draft picks.
Hinkie is being widely praised because he has managed to reset a significant portion of the fans' expectations to historically low levels. After being completely indifferent to improving this team over the last two years, he has finally made a move to upgrade the quality of the roster. Apparently it's not registering for some that Sacramento was the logical party to initiate this deal and Hinkie, having buku cap space and holes all over the roster, was in the best position to accommodate them. It was a good move for sure, but calling him a "genius" for this is a little like calling an unemployed guy a genius because he was available for work when a good job offer came through.
I don't think anyone is calling him a "genius" for this move. But let's be fair and give him proper credit. In truth we don't know how these negotiations work, but I doubt that SAC just volunteered those pick swaps. Fact is that Hinkie got this deal done. He was also smart enough to do this deal early in the FA process while other teams with significant cap space were still chasing FAs that they had no shot at. At the end of the day, this is a similar haul to what Ainge got from Brooklyn (minus a pick, but adding Stauskas), although Hinkie gave up nothing. Nobody would dream of not giving Ainge credit for that deal. I think Hinkie deserves the same.
Praise to you Buke for at least acknowledging that adding Stauskas was a positive move. Giving credit where credit is due.
I also have take a break from my negative attitude to give credit. This trade was a beat down! Those first round swaps can be huge because it gives the Sixers two more chances to win the draft lottery. I think it would have been a very good trade even without the swaps. We gave up nothing except taking on some salary.
Can anyone bring me up to speed on Stauskas? He couldn't get off the bench for a crappy team (15 mpg). Potential floor spacer?
on Stauskas, feel like peoples opinion on him is how you view his last year
i view last year as never getting consistent minutes playing for 3 different coaches on most dysfunctional team in the league
so for me hes still the same guy he was coming out of college
he showed flashes in college of being able to run the p/r so i wonder if they try that with him from time to time
but yea he should be a knockdown shooter
Thanks. If Stauskas is a nice piece of the puzzle, then that makes this trade a total win.
He couldn't hit a thing last season unless he was uncovered.
http://i.imgur.com/d23t9LX.png
10.8% on catch and shoot 3s with a defender on him. Plus he won't ever be able to finish at the rim at a decent clip considering how weak and unexplosive he is, at least in my estimation. Minus defender as well.
^ that chart shows his shooting splits by defender distance.
I like the trade, nonetheless, but mostly for the pick swaps.
I didn't watch the Kings much last season, but everything I read indicates that his second half was a real positive. So maybe the numbers don't quite reflect how his numbers should look next season with a single coach and actual steady minutes. Let's hope at least. Not sure what there is to say about his defense(or lack of) except that he is athletic, so perhaps some changes in technique will help him improve over time.
Athletic by NBA standards?
Athletic enough...sure. Why not? His scouting reports, at least to my recollection, state he has good athleticism. Not elite by any means but better than average. That should work with some good coaching.
LMA to the spurs
looks hibbert will be traded to the lakers
like*
@WojYahooNBA Sources: Free agent Kyle O’Quinn has agreed to a four-year, $16M deal with New York. Knicks acquire him in sign-and-trade with Orlando.
for reasons im not even sure of, i think he can play and has stretch 4 potential. just wasnt used right in ORL
@KBergCBS The Magic get a future second-round pick in a sign-and-trade for restricted free agent Kyle O'Quinn, who goes to the Knicks.
@DerekBodnerNBA McConnell, McRae, Jerami Grant, Aldemir, and Okafor the starters for the #sixers in Utah.
@WojYahooNBA Free agent Lou Williams has agreed to a 3-year, $21 million deal with Lakers, league sources tell Yahoo
https://twitter.com/Monroe_SA/status/617822606914248704
he signed with the raptors for 4 years 30 million
@WojYahooNBA Restricted free agent guard Reggie Jackson has agreed to a five-year, $80M extension with the Detroit Pistons, league sources tell Yahoo.
that is uhhhhhhhh something
Yea, I wonder who they were bidding against.
Pretty decent trade for LA. 28 year old center on the last year of his deal for a 2nd round pick. In surpised that another team like Boston or Atlanta wasn't able to get him on a better offer.
I still think LA doesn't come close to making the playoffs.
And they're off...to a 5-12 deficit that is. Like the San Antonio regular team, the SA summer team has some shooters. Like the Philly regular team, the summer team doesn't.
Okafor finally makes one. Some of these fouls he's drawing could easily be called travels.
Well one half in, and he's at least passed the Evan Turner test. He's shown some nice moves despite shooting a low percentage. Too bad nobody can shoot on this team or he's have a few assists to go with 6pts 4rb 2blks.
Big man is beginning to dominate now...nice low-post moves!
Nice game by Okafor. Holmes will be interesting to watch as well. McRae wasn't the least bit impressive. For a guy who spent the last year playing professionally, it didn't show. And he is absolutely not a PG. Okafor missed all four of his FTs.
McRea didn't have the greatest game but I'm not going to draw any conclusions from that yet. He was a little overeager. He did manage to hit three of their four threes. Stauskas will have to be the second coming of Steve Kerr for this team to score much from three point range.
Nice start for Okafor although he did force a few.
I didn't watch the Sixers much last year so I couldn't appreciate what Aldemir does as what he does doesn't completely show in the box score.
Except for missing the outside shooters early in the game the defense was pretty solid.
Don't know anything about Holmes but was def impressed with him tonight. Didn't know he had that range. I watched McConnell a bit at AZ and thought he was very good tonight running the team. Gotta hit open threes if he's gonna stick tho.
There is ZERO space in the paint in SL games. That said, Okafor is really good at finding his way to the hoop. He def looked tired at times and like he didn't have his legs under him but Brown's fitness regimen will take care of that in a hurry. A few months of not playing organized ball will do that to you.
For a 40+ like me, it's a lot of fun to watch a true low-post player do his thing on the block. Having Covington and Stauskas out there to spread the floor will do wonders for Okafor as well.
Def looking forward to rest of the games in Utah and then seeing the progress in Vegas.
Agree with Okafor as I also thought his motor wasn't quite what it needed to be. Nevertheless, pretty good start for him.
I'm interested to see Holmes' share of minutes over the summer league. In some ways I'd rather have him playing more minutes than Jerami based on what I saw tonight. I'd like to see him on the roster but maybe they will do the same thing with him they did with McRea last year.
I think motor = cardio for Okafor in this case. 260+ lbs is a lot to haul at altitude in your first game in months. He was slow to get back defensively a few times after thinking he got hacked on the offensive end. Typical rookie stuff tho, nothing egregious.
If his level of comfort in the post is this high in his first summer league game, I'm really excited about what's to come.
Sixers coach Lange commented that the altitude in Utah makes it tough on players as well. So that no doubt affected his wind, but I would agree that in general he needs to improve on conditioning and he will improve on it. He's going to be fun to watch.
@ESPNSteinLine ESPN sources say that the Boston Celtics have agreed to trade for David Lee
@ESPNSteinLine ESPN sources say that the Celtics have agreed to send Gerald Wallace to the Warriors for David Lee
I keep hearing that Ricky Rubio is available? Anyone else hear this? I would absolutely make that deal.
What would you give up?
I'm not sure what the price would be, but I would ask. He has been injured a bit.
Would you trust his health? In four seasons, he's played one full one. And his career True Shooting Percentage is about the same as Evan Turner's.
Agree on the health, but that injury last year was just unfortunate. I was watching that game and it was just one of those plays where he rolled in ankle because he stepped on someone's foot. But you are right, injured is injured.
I don't mind the bad shooting so much because he looked like he had improved a bit before he went down last year. And I love everything else he brings. Unlike MCW or ET, Rubio is a dynamic PG who really understands the position. He's also good defender. If the price wasn't crazy, I'd take a shot.
Speaking of veteran Spanish point guards, there is another one rumored to be interested in returning to the NBA: Sergio Rodriguez.
i think im all in on holmes
Did they get him with the KJ pick?
yea
looks like deandre jordan might be changing his mind about going to dallas
im not even making this up but the clippers are at jordan's house keeping out anyone so he can sign a contract ASAP. the 30 for 30 on this is going to be great
@WojYahooNBA Sources: DeAndre Jordan still has everyone closed out, including Cuban. Clippers are two hours away from signing him, they believe.
https://twitter.com/Chris_Broussard/status/618967224536158208
Chris Broussard – Verified account @Chris_Broussard
Sources: Cuban is beside himself. Driving around downtown Dallas begging (thru texts) Jordan's family for address to DeAndre's home
7:17 PM - 8 Jul 2015
this is stupid.
please put the first LAC/DAL game on national tv
I wonder how competitive Dallas will be this year. Apparently Hibbert was supposed to be traded to Dallas but the offer was turned down once DeAndre committed to signing with them.
Boston has their pick(top 7 protected)
From what I have seen of Okafor, it is generally in-line with what I expected. At age 19, he looks like he will be an elite post-scorer. His weaknesses have been as expected: defense, some athleticism getting shots off, and getting winded. But I am not too concerned. I don't feel ridiculous in saying he looks like a potential 2nd best player on a contender.
Holmes looks as intriguing as anyone can after 2 summer league games. As much as Okafor is NOT a fit in the new NBA, Holmes seems like the perfect fit. Nothing to get too excited about, but compelling at the least.
The PG position is concerning to me. I would give Wroten a shot for the first couple of months, but that is the best of shitty options in my opinion. Everyone has given up on Canaan despite him joining midseason, so perhaps there is some upside there. Pierre Jackson may be hurt again. I am hoping that the consensus negative is overdone and someone surprises to the upside...I won't hold my breath.
This whole DeAndre Jordan fiasco is a disgrace. Is he a grown man or a 13 yr old girl? I have no problem with him changing his mind. It's a tough decision, and the moratorium is what it is, so nothing is truly official until the actual signature. Plus this isn't the first time similar scenarios have occurred.
My main issue is with the lack of integrity in how he handled this process. I mean, who raised this kid? If you make a mistake and change your mind, go meet with Cuban in person, like a man, like a professional, and tell him that you made a mistake. Or at least pick up the phone (even though that's still a coward's way). What a joke.
13 year old girl in a grown man's body. Either he's so impressionable that he and his team thought that the last ones who talk to him will be the ones who sign him, or he just asked them all to stick around so he has a lame excuse for not being able to say 'No' to Cuban's face.
POR signed kanter to a 4 year 70 million offer sheet, OKC has 3 days to decide to match or let him go
and cause jordan changed his mind wes matthews is now getting 4 years 70 million coming off a torn Achilles
please sign a guard that can throw and anticipate an entry pass
and because his hands are so big he doesnt even need to have a great angle
Holmes fractured his elbow, 2 months.
So any thoughts on who may make the roster from this summer league squad? I didn't watch very much.
From what I gather, the only true positives have been Holmes and Aldemir. McRae seems like a black hole who only has his wingspan and ability to get to the stripe going for him. Grant is still as raw as ever. Tokoto isn't an NBA player. Ditto for McConnell. And Okafor has his work cut out for him if he wants to hit his Al Jefferson/Greg Monroe ceiling.
Honestly Holmes was the biggest upside surprise for me. It's a shame with this injury but I'd expect him to be with the big boys this year.
Grant will make roster because of last year. I'll make the excuse that summer league isn't ideal for his game. He didn't show much improvement from what I saw last year but I won't get too caught up in 3 games.
Aldemir isn't a total lost cause. There is progression so I'd expect he is here barring a healthy log jammed front court.
McConnell is a long shot in my opinion. Maybe Delaware but I'd put the money strongly against opening roster.
That was it in my opinion. Hoping Pierre Jackson can get some minutes and facilitate a clean offense. I'm not expecting Jakarrs game to look good in summer league so prepared to be disappointed there.
Overall hoping we aren't done with our roster before the season begins.
It's early, but Okafor looks like garbage. I was expecting a baby Walt Bellamy. I need to adjust expectations.
You're getting a little lazy. I expect at least a paragraph containing metaphors
*comparing him to trash but not explicitly calling him trash.
And I agree. He looks like Al JefferDon. If he was a good rebounder and a decent shooter, I'd be more excited.
He had 5 shots blocked in his first two games.
End of the week, Stan. Excuse my sloth.
It just wouldn't be summer league if our top pick wasn't completely outclassed by a bunch of hungry d-league wannabes.
The ability and the attitude are a concern. Other than that all systems are go.
Oh boy - first few minutes of Lakers wolves has me depressed again about not getting Russell.
Did Tarik Black seriously just foul out? You get like infinity fouls in Summer League. Towns has 9 fouls as well, leading his team in assists though.
I wish they'd make Lavine and Clarkson go play some 1 on 1 out back so I could see Russell and Towns get more action.
Deron Williams to the Mavs for 2/10
Old before his time. For Mavericks' sake, hope he's workin' out hard this summer. Nets lost bettin' on him.
That's true, but he's still only 31. Seems like not that long ago people were debating whether he or Chris Paul was the best point guard in the league. I think there's a chance he rejuvinates his game a bit in Dallas, and the Mavs aren't paying much at all to find out so I like the move.
Might pay dividends. Emphasis on might. Didn't like the Sloan rebellion. Seems like a
head case. Maybe Dallas will kiss his ass at the perfect longitude and latitude and spur better production.
I watched the first couple of quarters of the LAL v. T-Wolves lat night, and admittedly it was tough to watch Russell. He'll be a really good player, and would have a been a nice fit here. He is who I wanted. For that matter, Towns is going to be something down the road as well.
But I don't want to dismiss Okafor just because his game is not in the "direction the NBA is going." I'm so sick of hearing that phrase. Yes, it is obvious that the game of late has been moving in the direction of smaller, more athletic bigs who can stretch the floor. In truth there has also been a lack of truly skilled legitimate 6'll/7'0 guys coming into the league in the last decade. But I look at Okafor's game and I have a hard time seeing how his game, coupled with some legitimate shooters, cannot succeed today. He is as good a passer out of the post as any big man I have seen, and he's only 19! I would be interested in seeing what he and a healthy Embiid(next week should be fun) could do down low on the glass, and scoring in the low-post. Teams are not going to be able to go small for very long against they type of front line the Sixers will be rolling out. Yes, there will be some questions as to how Okafor will match up on defense, but I'm willing to give this kid a chance to develop and improve there.
I don't know how this will all work out anymore that the rest of you. More than likely one the the Noel/Embiid/Okafor trio will be traded in the not so distant future. But Okafor is going to be a good player in this league. I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss how effective his game will be.
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/25239203/report-sixers-joel-embiid-will-miss-next-season-after-2nd-foot-surgery
BOOM! (as Brian correctly predicted on draft night)
Adrian Wojnarowski ✔@WojYahooNBA
Free agent forward Luc Mbah a Moute progressing on a deal with the Sacramento Kings, league sources tell Yahoo Sports.
11:49 PM - 12 Jul 2015
Sixers won't be needing him anymore.
it just sucks, nothing more i can really say
This year we drafted Al Jefferson. Last year we drafted Greg Oden and Fran Vasquez. Awesome.
Bummer about the Embiid news. I guess for the anti-Hinkie folks this means Hinkie is a step closer o being on the hot seat.
Is he though? Realistically I think 2017 would be absolute earliest he'd be fired. And a lot has to go wrong for that
It, in practical effect, means the same thing for pro-Hinkie folks such as yourself.
Hickory hickory dock, the mousey GM is attempting to outrun the clock.
All the king's horses and all the king's men couldn't put a large foot or an executive's mythology together again.
~~~~~
"Toto, I don't think we're in Kansas anymore."
Okafor putting on a clinic in the post tonight
I wonder who plays first - Embiid, Saric, or none of the above.
$100 on Saric.
Hmm if I knew you in person I might take you up on that. I don't see Saric coming over before 2017 at the earliest and I expect Embiid to suit up for at least a few games in 2016 before getting hurt again.
Agree completely. I suspect that the odds are more than 50% that Saric won't arrive until 2017 and if Embiid can play in 2016, he must play for the Sixers to have any chance of trading him.
Last night provided an exciting look at Okafor's potential. Say what you want about summer leave, but Black and Upshaw are two NBA sized and skilled players that are both known for defense. What was unique was Okafor's ability to "figure them out" rather than vice versa. 6/14 doesn't look sexy at first glance, but he had a few shots just rim out and I'd be confident about that number going up.
I expect some radical volatility for Okafor this season. Much more than a usual rookie because of his reliance on entry passes, unique back to the basket game, and odd variance of what he will be matched up against. I'm hoping he has a "wear down" style which will only work if his fitness is top notch.
Pierre Jackson was okay. He has some signs of running a team. It wasn't all fluid but his ability to knock down shots was warmly welcomed. He has a unique pacing style to his game.
Sampson looked better to me in a glue guy sense - but damm his +\- did not support that.
"What was unique was Okafor's ability to "figure them out" rather than vice versa"
Could not agree more, and man is he fluid around the post. I am also impressed with the patience he shows with double(even triple) teams. This kid is WAY beyond his years in that area.
I'm really hoping Hinkie can make a move to bring in a good young PG. Don't know who that will be, and it may not happen until next season, but it will be nice to see when that player arrives. In the short term I's be happy with Ish/Jackson. Anyone know anything about Micic? Is he back from injury? I would be interested to know what the plans are with him, and if he is even considered an NBA prospect.
the nets gave Bargnani a 2 year deal( 2nd year is a player option) for the vet min
BILLY KING!!!!!!!
the kings offered him more money so i dont know whats worst
@WojYahooNBA Orlando is trading forward Moe Harkless to Portland for a future second-round pick, league source tells Yahoo Sports
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/25239692/after-embiids-injury-where-are-the-philadelphia-76ers-going
good read
@WojYahooNBA Oklahoma City has informed Portland it has matched $70M offer sheet for restricted free agent Enes Kanter, league sources tell Yahoo Sports
4 1st round picks and a vault o' cash ain't what it used to be.
Sixers, the perpetual Coming Attraction.
Kings' rookie flop granted new geography, viewed as gold nugget by some in this abandoned mining town.
Duke dropout expected to place 18 win team on shoulders, avoid Kaminsky-like pastings in a brand new world of strength, quickness, wiles and depth.
Point guard vacancy.
Head coach patience to undergo more testing.
Camden dirt has been moved to tears, thinking of tenants to be.
So can someone from camp Hinkie explain to me what the plan even is at this point? Right now it looks like 'do nothing, keep losing, and build around Okafor', which seems like a surefire way to ~10th-8th seedery in a few years.
Or is Plan Permatank still rolling along without skipping a beat like it's still 2013? If so, who are we tanking for this time? Labissiere is probably the target since he plays Center, which also means they don't get him and take the guy* ranked 3 spots below, because Sixers, and because Okafor probably adds just enough W's to put them in 'pseudo mediocrity' land again i.e. pick 3 in a 1-2 star draft.
*(this guy will also play Center, because BPA all day & trust the process etc)
Or is it keep holding our breath for Embiid while hoping that some scrubs like Sampson and Grant "add a jumpshot" or whatever. Talking about which non-lotto picks convey when while watching 60 more losses.
I figured they'd hit a dead end with this eventually but I wasn't expecting it to be this soon.
I don't think they've hit a "dead end" yet but another big loss season would appear to be on the horizon. I don't think they'll lose as many but they'll lose more than 50.
Hinkie will go with some of the usual fill-ins on low cost contracts with team options and will wait for next summer's draft to see who he can draft for the team and which picks he can trade. I suspect this might be the last big losing season although not the last in the string of losing seasons. When your team is as bad as the Sixers for the past two seasons, improvement is virtually inevitable.
this should be pretty obvious but anyway, the goal is a NBA championship. The best way to do that is sign a lebron or durant type player(not happening) so have they have to get them through the draft
what do you want them do? build a "team" instead of finding the best players
until they get stars they shouldnt worry about fit
traded for noel(elite defensive bigs dont grow on trees)
took a shot they could fix mcw, they didnt so they traded him at his highest value
took the best player in the draft in embiid
best case for saric is something there arent alot of in the league but where he was taken im fine with that gamble
The plan is to do whatever is going to make you whine and complain the most. How is he doing?
Seriously...enough already. You don't like the direction the team is going. I get it. But how are you not yet tired of the pro vs. anti "Hinkie Plan" discussion/debate?
Instead, why can't we discuss what moves you would like to see now to move this team forward? I would love to participate in that discussion.
I'm going to continue being Debbie Downer about all things Sixers related until management starts doing stuff that I actually agree with. I was born in Russia so unwavering cynicism and negativity is in my DNA kinda (which works i think, because you'll never be disappointed if your outlook on life sounds like the title of a Joe Budden mixtape).
In fact I'm surprised at how half the folks on here are not pessimistic at all (it seems). I thought being a sports fan from Philly/South NJ = constant black cloud lol yet somehow a novice unproven GM managed to inspire the most negative fanbase ever to Iversonian levels, with his process where nothing goes right and where every positive minor development is offset by 2 negative major ones.
And yes I'm tired of the endless pro vs. anti Hinkie arguments too. I'd also like to see more variety, but unfortunately, there's nothing bball related left to discuss. Hence why every thread inevitably flows into a discussion of Hinkie's strategy, because everything about this team is in the future tense only
Fair enough. While I disagree on with you on how bad things are, I do appreciate your perspective and the fact that you take the time to articulate your points(which you always do).
For example:
"In fact I'm surprised at how half the folks on here are not pessimistic at all (it seems). I thought being a sports fan from Philly/South NJ = constant black cloud lol yet somehow a novice unproven GM managed to inspire the most negative fanbase ever to Iversonian levels, with his process where nothing goes right and where every positive minor development is offset by 2 negative major ones."
Regarding the lack of pessimism you mention on this site (which I actually think is closer to 50/50 as far as who is OK with where this team is, and who is not), I will only speak for myself as to why I am more optimistic. Post Iverson era, I hit rock bottom during the Stefanski/Collins period(s). I initially thought both were good hires. I was never in favor of tearing everything down. I was ecstatic when the Bynum deal was made. I was so sick of the position this team was in (borderline 8th seed hell)and I LOVED the risk/reward of that deal. When that failed, and all of the back story info came out about Collins essentially quitting before Christmas his last year, wanting to sign Kwame Brown to a long-term deal, and the resulting players/assets left over after the wreckage...I was done. I wanted new everything. New front office, new owners (who are not 100% Flyers and 0% Sixers),new coach, but most of all, new perspective.
So...I am OK with where this team is philosophy-wise. If you don't have a star player, you have no hope. And despite the painful basketball over the last couple of seasons, I feel this regime is putting this team in the best possible position to draft/acquire a star. Obviously there is a good deal of luck involved. And lately the luck has been bad. The Embiid injury was a big blow, but I honestly can't argue with the draft choices made over the last couple of seasons. Now, I do agree that Hinkie should have never let Turner and Hawes exist long enough to be hitting turnaround 3's at the buzzer to win meaningless games. Hinkie was late on the trigger, and it cost this team. But I give him a B+ for drafting and sticking with a BPA philosophy. I love the Brett Brown hire, love the trades he's made, and I feel team is in a very strong position to build going forward.
"Instead, why can't we discuss what moves you would like to see now to move this team forward? I would love to participate in that discussion."
I honestly don't know at this point. There isn't even agreement on what constitutes "forward".
I had a rough idea of how I wanted the rebuild to unfold in the early stages after the Holiday trade, but Hinkie went in a different direction right away. That's why it's kind of impossible to answer the people who say "stop complaining because I haven't seen anyone even suggest an alternate strategy". I mean at this point we're all tangled up and 3 off-seasons deep already, so how can someone provide an exact step by step alternative strategy? unless I just go back to 2013 and start making up a whole new imaginary timeline for a hypothetical rebuild.
so how bout you, what do you think is the best way to move forward?
I know PG is the most plentiful position in the league today, so I'm not panicking that we don't have one. That being said, I want one, and a good one. I would like to see this team get creative to obtain the type of PG they are looking for. If that can't happen this years, I would at least like to bring Ish Smith back. Yes, he's no long term answer, but at least he knows that the future of this team rests with the bigs down low, and he knows his job is to get them the ball in position to score.
After that, more patience, which I know you want no part of. This team has the ability to make any number of future moves. I just don't want to see this team take anymore steps back, and I don't think they will. While I don't need to see a big increase in wins to judge growth, I do want to see development.
On another note, Okafor is going to be great, but I think I have seen enough of Porzingis to feel confident that he could be the best player in this draft in 3 years. I love his makeup.
So what grade does everyone give Hinkie after his third draft, two complete seasons at the helm?
depends what your expectations were for him when he took over
OK, so what grade would you give him?
i dont know like a B, hes done mostly good things but some bad things
to me the 2016 draft and free agency is the breaking point
I'm pretty sure the breaking point keeps getting moved further and further out.
Same. Other than taking MCW over Giannis I don't know what else he could have done differently in hindshight. Look at what the Celtics, Lakers, Magic, and Kings have done during that same time span. There wasn't a big trade or signing that the Sixers missed out on.
nobody was taking him over mcw at the time
dude was playing in high school gyms in Greece
he has a nice dunk every so often but he pretty much stopped shooting and making 3's last year
if he cant shoot im not even sure how good is
Or maybe we can take the whole "this is what I was hoping he would do" nonsense out of the equation and just grade the assets he's accumulated. Something like this:
Noel -> Probably worth a lottery-protected first rounder in next year's draft right now.
Okafor -> top-10 protected? Value probably goes down after this season.
Saric -> lottery-protected...maybe.
Embiid -> maybe a late first-rounder, probably not.
Covington -> second rounder
Everyone else -> pretty much worthless.
Then you've got the picks:
1) Our pick this summer -> probably another bottom 5 record, so compute the odds of winning the lottery.
2) LAL pick (top 3 protected) -> most likely will convey this summer as a pick somewhere between #5 and #15, my thinking is it'll be closer to #15 but an argument can be made in the other direction.
3) SAC (right to swap if it isn't conveyed to CHI this summer) -> Pretty unlikely Sacto will be worse than us, but possible. More likely we swap spots with them than they convey the pick to Chicago (top 10). Basically, add their ping pong balls to ours for a top-three pick.
4) MIA pick -> most likely will convey as a pick outside of the lottery this summer
5) OKC pick -> most likely will convey as a pick outside of the lottery this summer
6) SACTO future first (2018, top-10 protected. Unprotected in 2019) -> who knows, pretty far down the line.
Here's the big question. Could a GM with a less severe plan have wound up with this stable of "assets" without making a mockery of the game for two entire seasons?
I think pretty much any other strategy from the GM realistically should have and would have accumulated this level of assets without the pain of putting a laughingstock on the floor for two entire seasons (and soon to be three).
On the floor, it remains to be seen how good Okafor will be, but let's assume he's a really good low-post scorer and a terrible defender. It might seem like Noel is a perfect fit with him, but that's not really the case at all. Noel's presence on the offensive end is going to hinder Okafor's ability to play in the post a ton. Every team will have a natural double built in that won't leave a shooter open.
On the defensive end, Noel will probably be able to help Okafor out most of the time, with Okafor playing the less-mobile big on the other team.
Anyway, best case right now we've got three starters, and no impact players with maybe another fringe starter if Stauskus is much better than he showed last year. With Saric still two years away and Embiid at least a year away, if you buy into him at all. How much better off are they right now vs. if this was year 1 of a rebuild? I'd say not much. Anyway, what do you guys think?
what about the lakers offseason makes you think they were going to win 20+ more games than last year
are not were*
Interesting question.
I guess I'd give him a:
B+ on decisions/execution
C+ on outcomes
The first grade (Decisions/Execution) is easier to determine than the second. I think the Noel trade was the right idea given the state of the franchise at the time. The decision to go BPA and not be afraid to wait for a player was also smart. On the flip side, depending on the medical advise they got, I personal was too risk averse to take Embiid. But ultimately, having one of the 3 elite talents have a red flag the year you draft #3 is terrible luck. I also think Hinkie was slow on the draw his first year with the ET/Hawes trades an I think last year's roster was to stripped down at the start to foster player development.
The outcome grade is tricky. They seem to be a bit unlucky between the Embiid injury prior the draft (changing the #3 pick from a great spot to a bad spot to be picking.) Then they failed in having either LA, MIA or OKC convey this year (one late 3 pointer was the difference between OKC #18 and MIA #11 and LA was nearly a 1:5 shot.) Also, it was odd to see such a weak roster fail to get the worst record in consecutive years.
Obviously MCW was nearly the BPA but a poor fit. While it is hard to know what trades/moves using their picks and space have been an option. But on the flip side, I think bad teams rarely get "lucky" and land franchise altering talent, and the lottery always is a bit of a crapshoot even with the best scouting. So since I don't really know the true odds involved it is hard to know if what we are seeing is expected or a bit less than that.
Much less important, but still relevant, is how Hinkie has represented the organization. On one had he has developed a cult-like following and there is a fair amount of support among casual fans (which is sort of surprising.) On the other hand I find his lack of communication annoying (especially since he is a good speaker when he is willing to share.) And he has pulled off some low class moves in terms of low balling marginal players and the Jrue trade. He definitely gives off the "I think I'm the smartest guy in the room" vibe- and that is a bit of a red flag as well as a turn off (from both GM's and would be GM's :)
D
Unless Okafor and/or Saric really exceed my expectations
F
Court product: abysmal with hustle on top
Public relations: think Howard Hughes and Anthony Wiener
Prospects: out of the money for foreseeable future
Methodology: Spy vs. Spy, The Great Gatsby, Charlie Brown
Atmosphere: nerd fraternity party with endless bowl of M & M's
Ticket purchase interest: zero
B+ if I take away the luck involved.
Look back to where we were prior to the 2013 draft. Would you rather be there? Was there progress versus just operating with Holiday, Young and Turner? Instead you have Okafor who has at least as much star potential in my mind as Jrue did - not to mention at a scarce position. He is on a rookie deal and can be built around if he develops into a star or be a complimentary piece.
I really don't give a shit about the approach. If you try to be good you are a 6-8 seed. If you try to mask sucking you finish >5 lotto odds. It's practically impossible to guarantee the worst record as we have seen so the emphasized disappointment for not dealing turner earlier feels way overdone. I still dock him points for it but nothing serious.
I view our front court as competitive against anyone over the next 5 years. It involves meeting potential but I have confidence in these two players. I don't buy the spacing argument as a game breaker because both guys are incredibly young. Defensively it's as good as a combo for Okafor as I can think of - and offensively I think Okafors ability to pass out of the double teams and think two passes early will do quite a bit for nerlens. His step out makes the double defender make a decision to trap or retreat which is when defenses scramble. If every answer to the ideal pairing for a front court guy is serge ibaka then you are asking too much.
Covington could the most valuable contract in the league pretty soon. He is a real rotational player.
Our biggest need is the deepest position in the league.
If the Kings suck we don't have to worry about mediocrity as a potential consequence of player development.
I'm harsh on outcomes for the team but I can't point to many GMs that I think have done such massively better jobs positioning for the years ahead.
D
I absolutely hated the Embiid pick at the time because of the injuries. Other than that pick, I liked all of his moves looking at them individually. Looking at his decisions as a GM as a whole makes me question when he will be accountable for the team's performance.
"They just might. They are the anti-Sarvers, for better or worse. The team has been profitable during this extended downturn, per league documents obtained by Grantland; Philly pays no money into the league’s revenue-sharing system and receives the same luxury tax distribution as every other team that comes in below the tax line. The value of the franchise has at least tripled since Josh Harris and his private equity partners purchased the team in 2011."
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/a-tale-of-two-cities-phoenix-and-philly-plot-different-courses-to-contention/
"If Philly is really willing to do this for five, six, or seven seasons, it almost cannot fail."
This is just an outright lie. Minnesota and the Clippers are perfect examples of how a decade in the top of the lottery can, and is more likely to, lead to more and more of the same. The Sixers are more reliant on luck than the Suns or anyone else. The Suns are at least taking gambles on somewhat proven commodities. The Sixers are taking again and again for a 25% chance at that elusive superstar that may or may not even be available in the season that they get the top pick, and then may or may not be chronically injured, and may or may not be a lead-footed Al Jefferson, or an energy guy with no offensive game, or Toni Kukoc without the jumper who's three years away.
Accumulating C- assets doesn't automatically turn into a superstar. And doing this year after year after year doesn't guarantee anything. All it guarantees is you'll have maybe that same 5% chance of landing the guy every year in the draft. So what, 20 years would be the statistical average for actually landing the star. Of course, with an owner perfectly happy to take advantage of the welfare state of the CBA and a GM perfectly capable of plying his MBA to the system which was mistakenly based upon the notion that teams would want to win, not squeeze every penny out of it, I guess they can maintain this nonsense indefinitely.
Man, you're really sticking with the Jahlil Okafor is a "slow-footed Al Jefferson" aren't you?
Damn I just don't see it. I feel like at WORST, Okafor is Al Jefferson. At 19, he's already bigger (taller and heavier), has a nearly three inch advantage in wingspan, and is a better passer out of double-teams than Jefferson ever has been.
He also seems to have some Alpha dog in him, which I feel like will go a long way towards the ability for teammates to trust him to carry the load.
"Of course, with an owner perfectly happy to take advantage of the welfare state of the CBA and a GM perfectly capable of plying his MBA to the system which was mistakenly based upon the notion that teams would want to win, not squeeze every penny out of it, I guess they can maintain this nonsense indefinitely."
I would hope that they cannot and that the league would apply pressure eventually.
This sort of strategy may very well be self-limiting. Eventually these draft picks will get to the point where they have to be paid significant amounts to be retained. If Hinkie and ownership are still around in a few years and we see them refusing to match offers on quality restricted free agents, then we'll have clearer evidence that this "building a championship under a long-term process" claim was a ruse.
As far as assigning a grade to Hinkie, I think assigning one grade is too difficult and he must be graded on multiple dimensions individually.
1) On prolonging his own tenure: A+
2) On creating an aura of the mysterious genius to which the hopeful can attach their dreams: A (he's a veritable Chauncey Gardiner of the NBA)
3) Asset Collection: B+ (he's sure assembled a lot of them and some of them have to work out)
4) Actual Player Collection: C (To be sure, he's managed to get a few good players, but counting all of the draftees and other auditions, his hit rate must be well below the Mendoza line)
5) Team Development: D (Considering that
Milwaukee went from the worst record to the playoffs and Boston improved by 15 games this past year, this grade is surely deserved)
I'm pretty sure that if the Sixers spent a little bit more money and had a moderately successful team, their net profits would be higher than what it is now. They're one of the few teams in the NBA that aren't eligible for the NBA's revenue sharing program so it's not as if their current method is making them big money.
One thing that people keep ignoring is that free agency in the last 2-3 years hasn't really been a buyer's market. I thought it was crazy last summer when Gordon Hawyard and Chandler Parsons received max deals, but their deals don't look bad compared to the deals Reggie Jackson and Enes Kanter received this summer. Max contracts are a joke. Money isn't really much of a factor anymore and more and more teams have significant cap space. For a free agent to switch teams, take less money and less guaranteed years on his contract, it would have to be for a team with championship aspirations. LA, Boston, NYK, Sacramento, Utah, Minnesota, and Toronto can't offer that.
Even premiere NBA markets aren't much of a factor anymore. None of the big players in free agency really considered going to the Knicks or the Lakers. The CBA has almost made free agency a non-factor. It wasn't like 7 years ago when only 3 teams in the NBA had the cap space to sign Elton Brand.
The draft is sadly the best way to make an elite team. And you know that. I don't like seeing the crap that's out their either and sometimes I do get a little embarrassed to be a Sixers fan. But the prospect of being able to get the top players in the country year after year is more exciting than having a 44 win team.
"One thing that people keep ignoring is that free agency in the last 2-3 years hasn't really been a buyer's market."
Two summers ago was definitely a buyer's market. Last summer was a seller's market and this summer is a much bigger seller's market.
There were good players to be had at reasonable prices two summers ago. There were legitimate rotational players to be had for reasonable prices last summer. Hinkie wouldn't spend anything to acquire players who could play but was willing to pay considerably more than some of those annual salaries simply to acquire player salary credit to reach the minimum team compensation levels and escape having to pay bonuses. To the players and to the fans, Hinkie has been like Michael Corleone over the past two years: "I give you nothing."
i know hes coming off a torn acl but would really like for them to sign kendall marshall
I know it's summer league but Okafor just dominated the entire Knicks front line in the first quarter of this game. Can't recall this type of offensive post presence on the Sixers for a loooong time.
Sharone Wright notwithstanding :)
Okafor looked like he petered out towards the end of the game. Lost some lift off his shot for sure. Finished with 18 pts and 6 boards but was definitely worse in the fourth quarter. Got blocked a few times as well.
Add Scottie Wilbekin's name to the list of PG's who could get a camp invite. Played great tonight. Hit 6 threes and ran the team well.
Porzingis looked pretty good for the Knicks. He's so damn loooong. About 7'3 in sneakers with crazy long arms. Pretty shooting stroke. Had 7 fouls though and wouldn't have been in the game after the first quarter when Okafor was beating him up in the paint. Blocked Okafor a few times fwiw.
Looks like quite a few rookies can have a nice impact in the league this year.
Yea, Porzingas might be scrawny and lack post scoring/passing ability, but he's an elite shooter who should always be able to get his shot off.
The rate at which Okafur is getting blocked is pretty alarming to me.
Yeah he'll definitely get his shot blocked a fair bit, but his post game is so advanced for a 19 year old, and he draws so much contact, I have no doubts he'll be ok.
I want to see him spend the next two months working on his conditioning and free throw shooting.
Steve:
Haha, thanks for the shout out.
Anytime, big guy.
Hinkie gets fired if Gianni's is a stud + Aaron Gordon and Dante Exum are studs and Porzingjs is a stud all while our guys are mediocre.
Honestly I think all GMs should have at least 3 years barring some awful move which I domt think we've seen.
I would agree with the minimum 3 year tenure. After all, David Kahn got 4 years with the Timberwolves. Oddly, though, coaches have comparatively little margin for error. We see coaches get fired frequently after very short stints. Recall that the Sixers fired Jim O'Brien after one year where he coached the team back to the playoffs.
If I had to bet, I would say that Hinkie is looking at a minimum five year tenure here unless the team is sold. He's set the bar for present performance so low that the team is quite likely to show significant enough improvement over the next two years even if those are losing seasons. He may have to show something in year five, though.
GM Brad Greenberg lasted 11 months, 5/96 to 4/97 (22-60, slight win increase; communication concerns). But of course Pat Croce played for keeps, unlike the current schemer whose name is far too prevalent and dominating, yielding primarily mythology and dreams, not sound, prideful basketball.
Current schemer is going nowhere soon as birds of a feather flock together. That is, as long as lemmings continue to half-fill the arena.
Thanks for that reference from the past. Wow! It must be said that he did draft Allen Iverson. I wasn't paying attention during that era (probably a rational decision) so I had to look him up. He now coaches in Russia.
The Sixers had 4 GMs in seven years during that awful period. How different things are today. Without the pervasive fantasy league and blogosphere presence then, all that mattered was your product's on-court performance.
You're welcome, Buke. But you really must stop feathering your attention in and out of seasons, lest you be labeled fan-alternate. Are you all in for the upcoming campaign? Or ya gonna ride with Milwaukee, Minnesota or Chicago?
I liked the way Croce recognized his GM hiring mistake and without ado axed Greenberg, took a new direction.
You're right. I am going to renew my League Pass this year. As awful as last season was, there were still games I wish I had seen. Hinkie doesn't have that much roster space for D Leaguer auditions anymore so it might be time to check back in.
Although I live in Minnesota and get their games for free with cable, I haven't fully warmed up to watching the Timberwolves. I guess 11 straight seasons without making the playoffs has something to do with a hesitancy to invest.
I actually followed Boston more than anyone last year. I like Brad Stevens and I was intrigued to see what Turner could do as a de facto point guard. He was pretty good at setting up the young bigs but he still has the same old limitations. At least Stevens has managed to keep his shots down most games.
Neither Greenberb nor Croce were as directly responsible for the team's succes as John Lucas. Innept he may have been, but the end result was Iverson. And I was never really all that impressed with what the Sixers built around him aside from one season. They wasted a lot of assets, brought in damaged goods and missed the opportunity to draft a second star in either Pierce or Nowitski (taken the 2 picks immediately after our flight brother, Larry Hughes.)
Actually, I think Lynch, Snow, Theo, Aaron, and Tyrone Hill worked really well next to Iverson - better than anyone else (including much bigger stars) during the rest of his career. Larry Brown really understood the kind of teammates who fit him and he understood that someone else should be the primary point guard.
You well know, tk, longtime watcher, since last title, except for Barkley's one strong playoff team and the Iverson New Millenium Ride, the Sixers have been all over the map and mostly unsightly. Since '83, Indiana has offered a better product.
We certainly have had our share of Kenny Payne over the years.
I'm not sure what has been more compelling, the recent non-NBA guys they've trotted out the past 2 years or the post Barkley cavalcade (Bradley/Dumas/Mad Max/Barros.)
For the last 30+ years it is fair to say that Shawn Barkley and Manute Bol are more representative of the Sixers than AI or Barkley.
Okafor is excused from today's game to attend the ESPYS. Now that's funny.
They might have won that game without him anyway if they had Aldemir. Willie Reed and Cliff Alexander were just too big down low for the Sixers. All three primary guards (Jackson, McConnell, and Wilbekin) played fairly well and, somewhat surprisingly, so did Tokoto. Wilbekin really deserves a camp invite.
Thanks for brief recap and thoughts. (Where the furk is Furkan? He's got work to do.)
Brian - you gotta love Jason Levien. Was one of the original buyers of sixers, flipped it for a stake in grizzlies , and now an advisor to Vivek on the kings. That's a gunner.
Scottie Wilbekin signed to a 4 yr deal
Hinkie continues to show he is in tank mode for a 3rd straight year it seems.
who is out there for them to sign?
you can sign your pretty much useless vets that do nothing good for your future
Or, you can sign pretty much useless scrubs that do nothing for your present and aren't even in the league in the future.
what does Pappy Jack do for the future?
not much
best case is probably what nate robinson was
right so then what's the difference
Just sayin. usually a big chunk of the argument against adding veterans is that you don't want them blocking promising young guys. That's a non-issue here since the team is all dregs again.
It's pretty shortsighted to give some dLeague duo like Jackson and Wilbekin a full year of carte blanche playing time at PG again. Right as the team finally has a couple pieces on the floor who actually do need to be developed and who are directly affected by PG play.
would not shock me at all if Wilbekin makes the team over canaan
Meh, most of these Hinkie specials go to future useless vets... If they even make it to be a vet. With the exception of Covington - who when signed was clearly the best player in the DLeague- none of these guys will ever be more than roster fodder.
@Sixers2015Draft 93 players attempted 450+ 3's over the last 2 seasons, only 12 with a better 3P% than Hollis (.401)
I'm certainly for them trying to find diamonds in the rough... Bit at this point they should not have everyone on their backcourt fitting that profile. Although it is less an issue at wing than PG. A limited player who can shoot is still of use, bit limited players at PG hurt everyone else development... Particularly when your wings are limited as playmakers.
i think stauskas can be a good enough secondary ball handler so all the pressure isnt on the pg
I'm with sixersfan here but not by a large margin. I think Stauskus can be a secondary ball handler and I am fine with trying to find a Pat Beverley IF that guard is known for D and can hit shots. I think Wilbekin at least gave glimpses of having those traits. But I expect him to be cut preseason.
I think as long as Okafor gets touches every play, we don't need a high usage (in terms of percent of play with ball in his hands) PG. I honestly think we should run our offense through the post in a two man game with Stauskus and Okafor.'
For a young team the PG position is too important for everyone else's development to leave in the hands of Wroten, Canaan, PappyJack and Wilbekin. I really am on the other side of Hinkie on this one. Even Ish would be a huge upgrade, if only because the few things he I'd good at help players around him.
But seriously, assuming they decided a year ago that MCW was not their man... Going through next season without an NBA quality PG is inexcusable given the plethora of PG talent put there. I understand there is no rush to have your PG of the future, but that is not a reason to have no PG on the roster.
KJ got 3 years 10 million from Houston
who were they bidding against?
ty lawson to HOU for a 2016 protected first-round pick, Kostas Papanikolaou, Pablo Prigioni, Joey Dorsey and Nick Johnson
not sure i totally buy cooney's report on embiid re breaking his navicular bone
Not sure what would make you say that. Bob Cooney is a solid reporter. I've read most of his articles and never seen anything that is not credible.
its just seems odd they wouldnt say anything in the press release they sent out like a week ago
also he was just in Vegas with the summer league team and he was walking around with no boot
i guess its possible the bone could be broken and he wouldnt have to wear a boot but i dont know
It also seems odd that neither Hinkie or someone from Embiid's camp would come out and say these rumors were false.
I was skeptical at first but I'm starting to believe it more and more as time goes on.
This is a good opportunity for Hinkie to clear the air. I'm not someone who demands that GMs regularly provide access to reporters. But on large issues such as trades and injuries, they absolutely should. I don't even think Embiid's has the surgery yet, but I hope the team offers some clarification. Another break would be significant.
I'm honestly not sure why this is the straw that broke the camels back for some fans. I find the Pelicans situation to be much worse than not clarifying setback/break.
This type of stuff is tough to measure in stats but I I agree Hinkie could use some public PR moves as well. Gonzo's article was pretty good on the topic.
For me, he needs to communicate on this issue for a couple of reasons:
1) He fed the public wrong information if the recent reporting is accurate. I don't mind no information per se, but don't give me wrong information.
2) The organization is asking fans to take a giant leap of faith. You need to give something back in the form of communication when things go wrong. This is an example of things going very wrong.
In the end, I think it will come out that Embiid is solely responsible for this re-break, and they are trying to protect him. I don't know what he could have done, but this whole thing is getting strange. Regardless, this is a big setback, and it sucks.
"In the end, I think it will come out that Embiid is solely responsible for this re-break, and they are trying to protect him."
You are probably correct on this. There comes a point when the player has to own up to the consequence of his actions (e.g. being sent home, a couple minor twitter issues) and stop being protected by the organization.
I don' think it really matters how the injury happened, or whether it's a re-break. Either way he's missing another entire season. Either way, you'd have to be a fool to put any faith in this guy ever being a contributor to this organization. Three major health issues in something like 20 competitive basketball games in his career. The last two injuries coming without even setting foot (pardon the pun) on the court. They basically selected air at #3 in the draft last year.
Agree that the causal factors of Embiid's injury (or re-injury) are neither important nor interesting knowledge. As for Hinkie's communication style, fans should just presume by now that nothing will be revealed to them until management feels they have little choice.
To me the most interesting NBA tidbit of this new week is that the first full time female assistant coach in NBA history just won the Las Vegas summer league with a mostly no-name team. How fitting that this milestone was achieved by the organization that just keeps doing almost everything right.
I don't want my team giving up any advantages by releasing too much information. But to me, holding back information is different than sending out a statement that is completely misleading and disrespectful to fans. Maybe I'm asking too much.
I am generally in agreement with you here. At this point, just look at a Embid as a massively out of the money call option.
To me, the reality is building around Okafor/Noel frontcourt.
Covington and Stauskus screen as interesting rotational pieces. I would even add Hollis Thompson to that list.
Saric is a potential fit on any team - I am not optimistic he comes over next year.
We have cap space and no one wants to come here.
I am actually excited to watch the team this year because I have high hopes for Okafor. I do believe he has the upside to be a top 25 player. I think Noel is somewhere in the top 50 (harder to measure given his impact).
I don't think we fall into the bottom 3 this year and I don't think the Kings do either.
Therefore - our hopes of getting 2-3 top 25 guys depend on:
1. Our ability to get a guy in the 5-15 range who exceeds expectations to become a stud.
2. Okafor is good enough to attract a free agent in the future.
I think this team would have been more worth watching if Hinkie would have made a determined attempt to acquire Ty Lawson. Lawson is very likely much better than any point guard Hinkie could acquire either through the draft or in free agency over the next couple of years. Hinkie could have given up two protected first rounders and the team could be on their way to significant improvement.
I don't think the Kings fall into the bottom three either. The Sixers still could even if they win a handful or more games. There have been five seasons this century where no team had fewer than 20 wins.
I want no parts of Lawson. I'm a bit wary of players like him who deliberately undermine their coach. At least that's the word. I don't think he'd be a very good fit on a young team.
I don't know about the undermining of his coach, I just don't think he's a very good distributor, he's a piss-poor defender and he isn't going to age well. That being said, he'd be an outrageous upgrade to the current roster, so there's no way Hinkie would ever do that.
windhorst says the cavs want to trade haywood for a trade exception
sixers and Portland the only teams that can absorb him
haywood's contract becomes guaranteed august 1st so we should know soon if anything happens
Blazers got him
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/13324451/cleveland-cavaliers-trade-brendan-haywood-mike-miller-portland-trail-blazers
Haywood and Mike Miller to Portland; 2 future 2nd rounders & cash to Cleveland.
Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA
"Cleveland sends two future second-round picks to Portland to take on the Miller contract. Portland doesn’t send picks to Cavs."
Ok that makes more sense.
Zach Lowe had Jared Dudley as a guest on his podcast recently and asked him which team he would rather play for, Sixers or Kings. Dudley answered Kings without any hesitation, which I thought was interesting considering he spent much of the interview talking about playing time and mentoring young guys as two of the biggest motivational factors he looks for. The two reasons he cited were his disdain for the exploitative "Hinkie Special" deal given to 2nd rounders and fringe UDFAs in Philly as well as the fact that they're basically not trying at this point.
He recognized how dysfunctional the Kings are and how he'd get no PT/touches playing with Cousins and behind Rudy Gay but he'd still prefer Sacto because of Philly's indefinite tanking. Listening to him made me wonder just how toxic this whole thing has become and how many players feel the same way. Even if they wanted to add an above replacement level free agent now, would they be able to without having to significantly overpay?
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-lowe-post-podcast-jared-dudley-on-what-its-like-to-be-traded-players-union-awards-and-more/
38:50-41:00
I realize that Dudley is 30 and that no veteran that age wants to spend his twilight years in the league messing with a young rebuilding team if they can help it, but listening to his interview you get the sense that his answer would still be the same if he was 24.
boston just gave jordan mickey one of those deals and not one word of outrage about it(unless i missed it)
Seriously? Jared Dudley. We're supposed to be concerned about what Jared Dudley says about the rebuild. And the fact that he would choose the Kings validates his opinion in your mind? LOL
I think you missed my point. I don't care about Jared Dudley or the non guaranteed multi-year team option deals Hinkie hands out. But you don't think it's a problem if the perception around the league gets bad enough that players won't wanna come here? Couldn't that hamper the rebuild down the line?
I think that perception is way over exaggerated. The national media (for both valid and absurd reasons) has made this Sixers team a target. When negative publicity piles on, the results are stiffs like Jared Dudley talking smack about other teams. As this team improves, FAs will have no problem playing here. That negative perception will disappear.
Didn't Bledsoe say the same thing last season?
And I'm sure winning will make it easier to land free agents, but we're kind of talking about an "all things being equal" situation here. Like, the Sixers suck and Kings suck, but players would much rather go there. So if the Sixers ever do get good, other teams will also be good, so players might just opt for anywhere but here considering the team's reputation, and the fact that even a star player might not trust they won't just go into the tank and/or be too cheap to really put together a winning franchise. It's a valid point, whether you care about Dudley or not.
Yea. I see this as less about the Kings and more about the Sixers.
Jared Dudley is actually a reasonable guy from what I have heard from him over the years. He likes mentoring young players.
I don't think we will struggle to get free agents when it comes time to win. But I don't think we can sign players that will really move that effort either.
It's a moot point Brian. When the Sixers get good the negative perception will disappear quickly. And no, all things being equal, I doubt FAs will be choosing the Kings over the Sixers. This team is hiring the best sports science staff, they have a coach who players seem to love, they are building a reputation for player development, and they'll have a state-of-the-at practice facility to open for the 2016 season. But feel free to think that Kings will be the choice. Any chance to rip the team, well...you'll take it.
I remember when the Phillies weren't supposed to be able to attract FA pitchers when the new ballpark was completed because of all the bad publicity/negative perception about the short fence and bloop home runs. Players like John Smoltz were very outspoken about how they would never pitch for the Phillies, and wondered out loud why anyone FA SPs would. Two seasons later Phillies had the best rotation in baseball with players like Halladay and Lee happily running to Philadelphia (both by trades and FA signings).
My point is winning changes negative perceptions, and the Sixers will be a winning team. So listening to Jared Dudley, who by the way is on Sirius radio (NBA) shows all the time because he "gives his opinions", is a joke to me. Stop it.
He's the second guy to make a similar comment, his was a actually more restrained than Bledsoe's version. But I guess you're right about their awesome sales pitch. Not many teams have a closer like, "just wait til we show you downtown Camden in January!"
I guess we'll see who is right. In the meantime I'll keep a close eye on the opinions of Bledsoe and Dudley. They're obviously important in determining whether or not this organization's philosophy will work.
If the bells and whistles mattered, guys like Dudley and Bledsoe wouldn't be taking shots at the team and you'd hear comments about how great it would be to come play for Brett Brown. Players are aware of all the things you listed yet apparently it doesn't dissuade them from thinking negatively about the Sixers.
"This team is hiring the best sports science staff, they have a coach who players seem to love, they are building a reputation for player development, and they'll have a state-of-the-at practice facility to open for the 2016 season."
That stuff may be a selling point to players if it were a college recruiting visit but these guys have their own trainers, chefs, and nutrition experts already and NBA coaches come and go. As for player development, I can't really think of whom they've developed aside from coaching up some DLeaguers. If you have legitimate NBA talent on this team you're traded for picks, not developed.
http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/7/27/9045515/sixers-sam-hinkie-free-agents-winning
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/good-charlotte-the-hornets-and-the-sliding-scale-of-nba-mediocrity/?ex_cid=story-twitter
What a mess in Charlotte. Interesting to read that one of the reasons they had turned down the significant offer from Boston was that they had not even considered who they would have drafted in the 16 range. So they had a year to prepare for the draft, and never once did they consider that a team may want their #9 pick and offer a significant package if Charlotte was willing to trade down. When putting together their draft board, they apparently only considered players in the #9 range. Even though this same scenario happened the year before to them when Chicago tried to trade up to their spot. Amazing and unacceptable.
that whole front office panicked(maybe it was just MJ) when they lost out on anthony davis and now they are going to be stuck for a while
The Celtics offee was bullshit.I don't fault them for not takimy the trade.
But their draft picks have been odd. I don't know what Michael sees in these uncoordinated 6'10 white guys.
Sixers Acquire Gerald Wallace Ten Years Too Late! March Backwards Continues!
i dont really have a ton of evidence for this but i think the end of the next year is when hinkie stars to go after legit players in free agency
starts* not stars
maybe embiid already had the surgery and they havent announced it but it seems odd that he hasnt had the surgery yet
and then there is this
http://www.reddit.com/r/sixers/comments/3euved/possibly_completely_baseless_speculation_about/
and this
https://twitter.com/tmoore76ers/status/626940542924910592
I'm starting to wonder if this may actually be the case. There isn't much evidence one way or the other but what little speculative evidence does exist seems to corroborate this explanation.
If there was no re-break and his foot feels fine and pain free, then I'm sure Embiid would feel hesitant to go under the knife again. He probably sees himself becoming sort of the forgotten man if he misses another season for what he may deem an elective procedure this time around, and the league & his career just passing him by (Sixers even drafted his replacement already). With as many specialists as he's seen about this issue he may have just latched on to the opinions of the one or two who may have told him that he doesn't "need" the surgery this time and can take his chances playing on his foot the way it is. Hinkie and co. think otherwise and that might explain the puzzling "Trust me or trust the process" hashtag that people were gossiping about. Hinkie himself stated something to the effect of 'the experts don't always agree' a while back if I recall correctly.
The surgery statement came out, when, like a month ago? saying he'll have surgery within the next 7-10 days (which was stupid by the way, putting a timetable on something when you don't have all your ducks in a row). So this leads me to believe that everything was ready to go except maybe Embiid.
So the question becomes, what should the team do at such an impasse*? They can't force him to have surgery and trading him probably brings back a top 15 protected pick at best, not to mention the embarrassment in the unlikely event that he manages to put together a good career for someone else. So the remaining option would be to play him and closely monitor his minutes. If something goes wrong, you have the surgery I guess. which is what they were trying to do all along in the first place and it's not like the team will be competing for the playoffs this season anyway.
*P.S: I get most of my Sixers news from here and Twitter so most of this is conjecture/made up. I could be missing something (or a lot) in my take.
The Jason Thompson trade was kind of dumb. They took on about $2 million in guaranteed salary, saved Golden State a boatload of money and in return only received a pick swap that will most likely not convey.
I think Wallace only has this year left on his deal though while Thompson has 2 years left. I don't think it was a dumb trade, just a bigger win for GS than Philly. I'd rather any extra minutes go to Holmes than Thompson anyway. Plus it's feasible that OKC finishes higher in the standings than Golden State. Not likely or significant, but possible.
Also, pretty sure Golden State sent Philly cash as part of the trade and I read somewhere it was the max allowed (~3 mil). I think these types of deals are important to Harris. As long as Hinkie keeps finding dollars to keep them in the black, Harris will keep giving Hinkie rope to continue his experiment.
"I read somewhere it was the max allowed (~3 mil)."
That's wrong. It was $1 million.
Wallace is owed $10.1 million for 2016. Thompson is owed $6.4 million in 2016 and $2.6 million in 2017. I guess that cash accounts for the difference.
If a team signs Wallace to the vet minimum ($1.4 million) the Sixers might be able to save about $300k or whatever they can in a buyout.
So I guess the owners don't care since they aren't losing any cash. And Hinkie can get off at night thinking about the low risk/high reward pick swap.
Where did you get the $1 million number?
I thought teams were allowed to receive a total of about $3 million in cash a season.
Pelton.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/13357649/nba-golden-state-warriors-save-tax-money-improve-bench
meaning Philly received $1 mil from GS in the deal. But yeah $3 mil is the max annual allotment that a team can pay or receive in trades.
man, the TBT Final was a great game. Overseas Elite took the million. Came down to the last shot.
@ZachLowe_NBA: Draft of NBA schedule circulating among teams. Sources say 4-games-in-5-nights nearly eliminated in that draft version.
Dante Exum tore his acl playing in a meaningless game for the Australian national team
tristan thompson is going to sign the qualifying offer and become unrestricted next year
https://twitter.com/michaelgrange/status/630819111732400128
http://www.csnphilly.com/basketball-philadelphia-76ers/sources-joel-embiid-surgery-scheduled-near-future
i think the schedule comes out tomorrow night
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/deep-sixer/Sixers-to-open-up-at-Boston-.html
http://espn.go.com/nba/team/schedule/_/name/phi
2 NBATV games on the season, nothing else "national". They have 4 Thursday night games, so I guess those could be on TNT, but probably just the other game, which is sometimes on NBATV, I think.
19 back-to-backs
1 b2b w/ both games at home
3 b2b's w/ away/home, which is a disadvantage.
I've seen worse schedules, not that it matters much.
in an effort to cut down on back to backs and 4 games in 5 nights more games will be played on thursday nights
@SpearsNBAYahoo The Atlanta Hawks have hired former NBA player Malik Rose as manager of basketball operations, a source said. It will be announced next week
That's great now we're tanking in the broadcast booth. The only reason I watch anymore is to see what Molly Sullivan is wearing
Over/under 24.5 wins?
Over. They will still be terrible, but they'll have enough to steal a few wins here and there.
I'll put it at 25 wins. Though I think there's a decent chance Noel gets moved this year for a pick, so being stuck in neutral at like 19 wins wouldn't shock me. Okafor is probably worth a handful of wins, I expect him to have some nights where he scores 30+ efficiently.
25 sounds about right. They were a solid defensive squad last year, but I think Luc was a big part of that and will be missed. But their offense should be much better, meaning at least passable as compared to last year's historically bad.
A lot depends on what they get from the PG position. Ish stabilized that position last year, and right now PG could be a bit of a disaster- which would hold down the win total. Poor PG play leads to live ball TO's and bad floor balance- meaning lots of fast breaks for the opposition. It undermines the notion that you can have a solid defense, since you are spotting the opposition too many free points.
With their improved post scoring and shooting I could see this team winning a fair amount of games in the East if they can execute offensively. But just don't see Wroten/Jackson/Wilbikin/Canaan as players who can lead a young team and run an offense. Ironically, even though I'm not a huge MCW guy, I think if he was on the team this year they would be looking at 30 wins or more.
"Though I think there's a decent chance Noel gets moved this year for a pick"
you really think so?
I think that'd be the most blatant kicking-the-can move to date. trading Noel (or Okafor) for more picks.
It'd definitely take some nerve on Hinkie's part.
I think next summer will tell us a lot. The team could be potentially adding Embiid, Saric and 4 first round picks. But there won't be minutes for 6 new rotational players, so I'd expect that a much bigger move would be in the works. But maybe neither Embiid or Saric are available next year.
Salute to Chocolate Thunder, Darryl Dawkins, who passed away today at 58. Broke backboards, gave his dunks names, and was all around one of the most fun Sixers ever.
He also was kind to me as a 10 year old when I approached him, alone, to get his autograph. He said, "I like a kid with spunk," and that compliment has stuck with me to this day.
The saddest among a barrage of sad days for Sixers fans everywhere. RIP, Chocolate Thunder, may there be plenty of backboards to break up there.
Sign Kendall Marshall. He's a low usage guy who can catch & shoot and is good at getting guys involved, which should go a little toward player development.
He turns it over a ton, moves like lava, and is coming off an ACL, but at least he'll know how to make an entry pass to Okafor and find a cutting Grant or Noel.
Not that it matters, but I still don't see why they won't/haven't re-signed Ish Smith. 6+ assists a game wasn't too shabby considering the garbage he was passing to.
The whole 'player development' thing is a bunch of hogwash to me anyway.
I wouldn't be opposed to re-signing Ish. My guess is that he doesn't want to go for the Hinkie Special considering he's a 27 year old journeyman who can always manage to find work elsewhere.
Marshall is 3 years younger and is arguably a better fit though. He shot 39% from 3 and 45% overall last season before he went down, while Smith was 40/31 mainly going to the hoop and shooting twice as much (per 36: 17.1 FGA to Marshall's 8.7). Their measureables are pretty different too, with Ish being undersized while Marshall having enough size to where you can sometimes hide him on a slower wing defensively. Ish may be the fastest guard in the league and Marshall is among the slowest but the offense should slow down this season on account of Okafor anyway, and Marshall has an excellent assist % himself.
As for player development, I agree that it typically doesn't make or break players in the long run (if it does, then the entire roster is completely screwed playing in this dumpster fire), but I do think it makes a difference. Even just looking back to last season and the difference Ish made for the offense, particularly for Noel, who had a stretch where he went from abysmal to "worth keeping on the floor for his defense" because Ish figured out how to spoon feed him on the offensive end.
The offense this season should be based around Okafor, with Stauskas, Covington, and Hollis spacing and I think a guy like Marshall should be able to facilitate a lot of it by feeding the ball down low and finding the shooters on the perimeter. I'd rather they have a point guard who sucks but might make the guys who matter play better, instead of one who sucks and doesn't make anyone better (like Tony Wroten).
Sounds like you've wroten Tony off. Isn't it a little early for that, amitynumerical?
oh Hey. You haven't posted in a while.
Yeah I've seen enough. There's a decent chance he's completely useless if he lost a step. You're saying be more patient? He doesn't strike me as your type of player - can't shoot, coughs it up, low IQ. Kind of surprising.
Must be the grit.
Team leaves me speechless. At least until things ramp up. How anyone can be excited about current conglomeration is beyond me. Okafor will score. What else?
Tony Wroten: Thad's kid brother. Not a big talker. Energetic. Competitive. Can run. Heavily leans left. Back rim shot. Sees floor, unfortunately, it's the portion immediately beneath him. Relentless in attack. Defense, so-so. Youth on his side. I give him another year to show. Toughness goes a long way. Not many on roster as dynamic. Injury effect? Who knows.
wroten Tony
ha....ha....
Dollar Bill,
Just when I think I'm out...you pull me back in with lines like "wroten Tony off..." Damn you...
Glad I could be of service, Steve. Don't jump ship, Sixers need you. As does this lately dormant blog. The big question is: What can Brown do for you?
Don't want tv screen to be full of Ish again this year.
"hogwash" -- showin' your age, e.h.
"moves like lava" -- good imagery.
Take it from me, Coatesville HS's and LaSalle College's Hubie Marshall was a better shooter. From deep!
"In again out again Finnegan." - the late broadcaster Les Keiter
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/sources--76ers-kendall-marshall-194618385.html
"Marshall is expected to return sometime in the first half of the upcoming season"
Sixers' locker room should have wheelchair ramps by now so players can get in.
Christian Wood signed.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/sources--76ers-sign-former-north-carolina-forward-j-p--tokoto-184400997.html?soc_src=mail&soc_trk=ma
so much for being stashed overseas rumors
Ish Smith signed a camp deal with the Wizards. It's a non-guaranteed contract though and according to the article it's unlikely he makes the final cut so we could see him again.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wizards-insider/wp/2015/09/08/wizards-sign-ish-smith-and-toure-murry-to-non-guaranteed-contracts/
I do not understand why Hinkie didn't sign Ish. In my mind he is perfect for this team. He is not going to win games for us by himself (we don't want that this year anyway), but he is an excellent distributor. From the interviews I've seen and from quotes by other players about him, he seems to be level-headed and a good vet presence in the locker room. I don't see a downside to signing him to a league minimum deal. Why are gunners like Wroten and Ike Canaan still on this team, and Ish isn't?
wroten is only on the team cause he tore his acl
i feel pretty confident in saying he would of gotten traded last year if he was healthy
Tip my 40 for Moses, the missing piece in ’83. He of the line drive free throws. Was tough as they come. Two great centers in two weeks. Rough.
all aboard the Anthony Bennett train when MIN buys him out
Going southbound again I see.
Well... it has been a long offseason... but in a couple weeks we have practice.... and a couple weeks after that weeks after that we have games... and weeks after that we establish our playoff contention.
Ok, ok, maybe not. But I am ready for some basketball. I am ready for Okafor to be the hero that Philly never deserved.
Brian is allowed to hate on Hinkie, because frankly, it is very easy to find misses in his strategy....annnnd not so easy to find successes quite yet.
DollarBill if you don't like Jahlil... I will be incredibly disappointed. I get his flaws, but he plays like a man. Footwork and Body.
sixerfan - game commentary is needed. You are a symbolistic glue of this all.
anomie - contiue your cause. I respect your concern and dismissal of conventional appreciation. I ultimately agree with your thoughts but take the more optimistic view. You focus on our jack shit PG situation while I focus on our (hopeful) frontcourt dvelopment.
tk, STAN, thesix, buke, sharone.....keep it going.
It is almost time for hoops - and I want a crew together when this team is mediocre (and above). We will inevitably be mediocre soon enough....
Good call out of 'the squad', Rusty.
I haven't a strong opinion on Okafor. Looks like he smells the basket, can do good things on that end. More to see in coming months.
In truth, I've never been so unenthused about the start of a 76ers campaign in my life. Am open to surprises though.
Three off seasons have passed by so far in the Hinkie era and I thought there would be more semblance of a roster by now. But at the same time I can't see what more the Sixers could have done other than be more fortunate. I guess that's the risk you take when your strategy is tanking.
3 seasons of missing the playoffs, Jrue Holiday, Thaddeus Young, and the most cap space in the league and this is what you get:
Jahlil Okafur
Joel Embiid
Nerlens Noel
Dario Saric
Nik Stauskas
Jerami Grant
Jakarr Sampson
Robert Covington
Hollis Thompson
LA's top 3 protected 1st round pick
Miami's top 10 protected 1st round pick
OKC's top 17 protected 1st round pick
Sacramento's 2018 1st round pick
None of that looks like championship potential, so I guess our hope relies on the 2016 NBA draft.
I'm not sure if Joel Embiid will ever play. Even if he comes back, he might just end up being a statue that takes a lot of jumpers.
Dario Saric might not come over till 2017 and I don't know how is game is going to translate.
Nerlens is always going to be offensively limited and light framed. Let's hope that his defense can be elite.
Jahlil Okafur is a little pudgy and can't shoot. His defense and rebounding will be average at best. He's going to struggle a bit on offense because he's not a consistent shooter and not standout athletic. I wonder how his offense is going to develop because he is supposed to have a high basketball IQ.
Part of me wishes that the Sixers would have taken Porzingas or Hezonja instead.
The Sixers don't really have much. But at this same time it's more than what Boston or LA has.
Here's hoping that the 2016 draft is going to bring the Sixers an elite wing player.
I expect the Sixers to win 30 games this year. They might end up being less depressing to watch than the Eagles. lol
Thanks for the encouragement, Rusty!
Essentially I do agree with Brian. I think that Hinkie's goal is to keep costs down, keep salary flexibility, and accumulate future picks in order to make this team potentially attractive to a prospective buyer who may actually want to field a competitive team. Hinkie is in no hurry to field a competitive team but the steps he has taken may give a future owner more options than most.
Having said that I do think there are reasons to watch this year. I'd like to watch the development of the front court and Kendall Marshall could be the right kind of point guard for this type of team if he is healthy and fully functioning. Out of disgust I cancelled my league pass last year but I'll be reinstating it this year.
Word. I just looking forward to hoops again. I'm still crushed by the Embiid fiasco, but it is what it is. Onward and upward...well...onward for sure(!).
Things to look forward to:
1) I was encouraged by what I read about Stauskas play over the summer against decent competition.
2) Okafor should be a beast. He wants to succeed and wants to be great, so it will be fun to watch his development. I will set his FT% line by March at 65%. I think he can do that this year. You want the over or the under?
3) The PG situation is a well documented dumpster fire. The long-term answer is not on the roster, but maybe one of these guys is a good short term solution.
4) Why can't I get it out of my head that Rubio will be a sixer this year?
Anyway, I look forward to the season. I respect everyone's opinions on this site and am happy to have a place to contribute to the discussion.
gerald wallace waived
Training Camp:
Canaan
Wroten
Noel
Marshall
Landry
Okafor
Sampson
Stauskas
McConnell
Aldemir
Embiid
Holmes
Tokoto
Wilbekin
Thompson
Covington
Wood
Grant
McRae
Jackson
I'd like the cuts to be: Landry, McConnell, McRae, Tokoto, & Jackson. Which would leave:
G: Marshall, Wroten, Canaan
G: Thompson, Stauskas, Wilbekin
F: Covington, Grant, Sampson
F: Noel, Holmes, Wood
C: Okafor, Aldemir, Embiid
Obviously there'd be room for Jackson to beat out Scottie Wilbekin for example, or for Tokoto to take Sampson's job, but he's kind of like this year's KJ with the contract and I don't think anyone is trading for him. Wood might also benefit more from Delaware.
Just in. Sixers new slogan:
REVOLUTION IS OUR NAME.
THIS STARTS NOW.
TOGETHER WE BUILD.
82 SLICES OF UPSIDE DOWN FRUITCAKE.
@PompeyOnSixers The #Sixers released their rights to Arsalan Kazemi so he could try out for the Atlanta Hawks.
Darn.
@tmoore76ers #Sixers Brown: Stauskas has 'right tibia stress reaction.' Will be out two weeks.
can we get a new thread soon please?
@WojYahooNBA Charlotte's Michael Kidd-Gilchrist will need shoulder surgery and be sidelined six months, league source tells Yahoo Sports.
For those like me who live away from Philly, tomorrow's pre-season game is on NBA TV. Thursday's as well I believe.
Thank you for the flag.
Based on the quotes, I like Okafor's attitude thus far. He is not associating himself with "the team" or any of the players on a regular basis. It is not a buddy/buddy think with Noel. He wants to prove he can do it in the pro's. He often refers to his ability as an individual. I personally don't see anything wrong with this (right now) and ultimately think that is what the team will need to properly turn around. And I don't think this is intentional selfishness - I think he has a chip on his shoulder and does not want to associate with the previous losing culture.
Whether he can compete, let alone dominate, remains to be seen. But I have faith. And sure enough, I am ready to settle in for another season of this stuff.
There's quite a few things I want to pick apart said by Jahlil, but first I'll ask this - at what point did the losing culture become "previous"?
He may not want to associate with it (according to you), but it's getting ready to slap him right upside the head. He won't have to worry about associating with it, because he will soon "be" a part of it.
Semantics - at some point the team will start winning games. If that was this season then Okafor would have never been a part of the "losing culture".
Rusty,
I don't think this team will start winning a healthy percentage of games until this management sells the team. I don't see any other way to interpret what they are doing (continuously kicking the can down the road while maintaining a bargain basement roster).
To a prospective buyer, this management can offer the following:
1) large amount of salary cap space;
2) no impending costly contracts with the possible exception of Noel in a few years;
3) future draft picks that can be drafted or traded (I fully expect Hinkie to postpone at least two first rounders if he ends up getting four this year).
Business are priced based on expectations of the future, not past or current results (except to the extent that they provide a basis for future expectations). The stink of Hinkie and Harris probably will not carry over to a subsequent owner and the way they are doing things makes this franchise potentially valuable to a future owner.
really? that seems in direct contrast to what Hinkie was saying about his newest protege
"Not much surprises me about (Okafor), but the thing that does is that, for such a high pick and someone who has been the best player of his cohorts since he was 12 or 13, he's really team-oriented. He's really into his teammates, he's really into what the group is doing. He's not on any island, not doing his own thing. He's concerned with the guys and being one of the guys. And he likes that."
Ultimately he is a team guy - check out his interactions (and continued interactions) with his former Duke teammates.
I don't think selfishness will ever be an issue - but I get a lead by example type approach.
Early observations:
Point guard position is going to be painful. Canaan and Wilbekin were as expected....bad.
Okafor has looked very solid despite having obvious flaws in his game. He isn't getting great position, but knocking down some solid midrange shots and finishing when he has a look. Encouraging on defense given how low expectations are.
Noel looks very good to me. Maybe biggest upside surprise. Its still not smooth on offense, but his activity is felt everywhere. Rebounding better...lets see how that goes.
Covington very quiet. Hopefully he finds his way into the game. I actually think a point guard is the link between making Okafor and Covington get the most out of each other.
Thompson hitting his shots. Encouraging.
Grant still oozing with talent but just not there on execution.
Preseason game 1, LETS GOOOO!
remember to draw conclusions on Okafor's career based on his first 30 seconds.
Looks like Canaan vs. Wilbekin for starting PG on opening day. I think McConnell & Jackson are already good as cut due to being hurt in addition to awful.
my internet got stuck, I hit submit on this like an hour ago.
Yea PG is going to be a problem to start the season considering they don't have one. Canaan and Wilbekin are both undersized 2s in my book.
I'm watching Holmes and Okafor mainly, I'm worried Okafor might get killed on the glass this year, and it's not like Noel is a great rebounder either.
Okafur looks like the Sixers version of Elton Brand.
Stanley Johnson looks like he's going to be a really good player.
Funny you say that - last night I was thinking that he was reminiscent of Drew Gooden shooting all those mid-range jumpers.
He will eventually reach Turner levels of earthbound-ness as he becomes more exposed and gets his shot blocked at a more than normal rate. His earthbound tendencies along with his pudginess will hinder his rebounding opportunities too, ala EB.
129-95 L
would expect the pg guard play to be pretty blah until kendall marshall returns
I too liked what I saw out of Noel tonight. He still has a lot of work to do on the offensive side, but the game has slowed down for him on the that end. He knows what he wants to do, and he has a clue now on how to do it. He was impressive. FT looked real good.
Okafor was solid too. He will learn quickly that many of the low-post moves he was able to make at Duke won't work in the NBA, but he looks like he'll have the talent to adjust. That jumper will be a good friend if he can make it consistently. Don't think he made it to the line once however.
Wilbekin looks like a an f'ing radio guy running around in one of those MTV-celebrity-NBA promo games. Holy shit he sucks. PG position is going to be so tough to watch. They'll make a move. Hope it's a good one.
Here's why Ish Smith isn't back with the team
http://mobile.philly.com/blogs/?wss=/philly/blogs/sports/sixers/&id=330993742&
"Smith turned down free-agent offers from the Sixers, Sacramento Kings and Phoenix Suns this summer."
He'd rather get cut by the Wizards than start for the Sixers on some bs Hinkie Special.
Honestly...who cares about Ish Smith? Was he better than what we have? Yes. Is that saying much? No,
And why is it a "BS Hinkie special"when the Sixers sign a player to that type of offer, but business as usual when Ainge does it, or any other GM for that matter? Way to cherry pick.
"who cares about Smith? who cares about Dudley? who cares about Bledsoe?"
This team is like the drunk guy at the bar yelling "That's fine I didn't want you ANYWAY!" at every mediocre looking girl who walks away after he tries starting a conversation. The unabating rejections should serve as an indicator that no perfect 10 (top 10) girl (player) is going to fall into his lap (sign) anytime soon, but he doesn't see that because the booze (Hinkie infatuation) hasn't worn off yet.
"why is it a "BS Hinkie special"when the Sixers sign a player to that type of offer, but business as usual when Ainge does it"
I'm a Sixers fan so I don't care about Ainge. And really, what other GM has systematically handed out these deals to the point where it's more or less a team policy, and systematically reduced his team to joke status (to every neutral observer) around the league? Other GMs have been known to rebuild rosters without completely abstaining from basketball for 3+ years.
Oh and to answer your question, I only posted that article because some people were asking earlier why Ish wasn't brought back.
Thanks for posting that. I was asking a month or so back on this very thread why wasn't Ish re-signed after dishing out 6+ dimes a game and penetrating in the lane and drawing and dishing at will. Had no idea that he was offered and wasn't interested. Par for the course, I'd say.
Of course, the Hinkieites still assume that this big star free agent is going to want to come play here when even these low level guys by way of their agents advice want no part of it. And that's with bundles of playing time available and not much competition for said playing time.
I also thank you for the post. From a basketball perspective, I still do not understand why he's not here. He's the kind of player who is perfect for this team, because he is not going to add too much to the win total by himself, but he will make the bigs better with a pass-first mentality. Also from interviews I've seen with him, he has a good, level head on his shoulders and would be a good veteran influence in the locker room. Speaking as a partial season ticket holder, he also made last year slightly more watchable.
I guess he was/is asking too much, since it wasn't only the Sixers who he turned down.
I agree with all of this. I keep hearing the argument that his ceiling was low and "it is easy to find a backup point guard". But we have seen a revolving door of point guards over the last 2 years and Smith, in my opinion, massively outperformed all of them.
I don't think he can win games himself, but he can keep some control of the court.
Exactly. Re-signing Smith would have made both camps happy. The tanking people would get a guy who's bad in all the right ways and won't hurt the lottery odds, while the rest of us would get to see slightly better basketball and a point guard who can get the bigs involved and help their development as he did last season, which is something everyone wants.
Signing Kendall Marshall was a step in this direction since he too is a low usage pass-first guard who isn't winning any games by himself, but why not sign both? You insure against the oft-injured Marshall and ensure that a competent distributor is on the floor at all times. Play Ish when Noel is at Center so he can hit him on rolls to the basket and can play at a faster pace, and play Marshall when Okafor is in the game and the offense slows down & provide Okafor with better spacing and more touches (Marshall shoots better and less than Ish does).
But no, instead let's develop Pappy Jack and flip him for a second rounder.
Covington no bueno
Down 64-55 at the half.
Okafor struggling - 11 min 4pts/2reb 2/8fg
Canaan's probably looked the best through 6 quarters of preseason so far. 13pts/2ast/1to in the first half tonight.
Jared Cunningham is lighting them up - 21 points on 7 shots, 3 assists, 0 turnovers.
These new uniforms are a hot mess. Not a fan of them.
Wilbekin 3 Game Winner !!!
115-114 W
TJ-Mac with the game winner this time!
97-95 W
The point guard play is horrendous. I am really hoping that Marshall brings the old man game, limits turnovers, Andre Miller'esque. I will concede points to at least watch some normal flow.
The biggest upside surprises thus far have been Holmes and Christian Wood. I would like to keep both of those guys and see what they can do. Holmes seems to have some Speights in him (without being quite the bonehead) and lets be honest, Speights was a real player for a title winning team.
Sampson has been mediocre. Perhaps I expected him to develop more of a fluid offensive game, but it remains the same awkward game.
Marshall
Stauskus
Covington
Noel
Okafor
Wroten/Canaan
Thompson
Sampson
Holmes
I think we stay in games with streaky three point shooting. I am hoping Okafor can provde more of a half court offense that limits our turnovers.
You put me in mind of a hopeless romantic. Always and continually holding on to however thin shred of hope that something, anything, will turn out positive amongst mostly a collection of rank garbage. When shit stinks, it stinks.
Not in so much of a literal sense, but more in a figurative way, Richaun Holmes is say, just your next slightly more athletic Lavoy Allen. Christian Wood could be Jarvis Varnado with a semblance of a shot. Meaning, these two newbies that you want a look-see at likely won't even be in the league in 3 years, if it takes that long. They're just the next scrubs in what has become a long line of scrubs.
I'm the biggest proponent of different strokes for different folks, but to look at these types of fringe players and think that they will somehow, one day turn into something and be able to help you in a 7 game series in the 2nd round of the playoffs is pretty much the equivalent of a pipe dream.
Just like your same unrealistic expectations with Jakarr, more times than not the players are what they are, never to become something more. Especially when you're always trying to take countless pebbles of chicken shit and expect to beguile the palate to believe it's chicken salad.
I mean, yes, I was looking for some positives. My commentary about the point guards and general play should have made it clear "this play is shit".
I will continue to look for the glimmers of role player hope while fully understanding role players mean nothing without talented players. I enjoy what Covington has become. The 1/100 guys who has become a competent starting player (or at least in my opinion). Whether you think Holmes is Lavoy Allen or I think he is Maurice Speights.
The early Iverson years were some of my favorites. Watching a team grow together. Sure I would love to be good overnight, but I don't expect it.
I will continue to take a more optimistic view on this team. While you will continue to point out that we have no chance of winning without a change of ownership.
No, Rusty. Nobody except blue chip guys from UK ever pan out. EVER. Eddie went too deep into his headies. Fact is, none of us know what those guys you mentioned might be. They'll probably suck, but hey Chris Mihm sucked. Wait lottery guys can suck too??
They might as well waive Jakarr and just carry 14 for now. People kiddin themselves about his upside. A 'defensive specialist' who's bad at defense...
Holmes could turn out to be something in the Kyle O'Quinn mold someday, so I'd give him minutes over Aldemir (who also needs to go), but his most realistic outcome is like.. Craig Brackins probably lol. In any case, he should still be the first big off the bench this year by default.
Christian Wood is like a poor man's Andray Blatche with less talent. Normally you'd want to stick guys like him in Delaware for at least a year but since there's no difference between Delaware and the back end of the Sixers roster, he might as well stay.
I wonder if Paul George becomes available sometime in the next year. what kind of trade package would Indy want?
Also I wish Hinkie would've traded for TJ Warren this off-season. I don't know how open the Suns would've been to that, but it seems like he always gets undervalued and he's a really fun player to watch stylistically. He's my pick for breakout player or whatever that award is called.
Man, please don't mention TJ Warren! I whined my ass off around here for Hinkie to take him. Really wanted him to take him instead of Dario Saric, hell I even mentioned one time that if he's your guy (which I believed in him at the time) you take him with whatever high pick you get from the lottery (ended up being #3). I would have taken him instead of Embiid and never looked back. The guy is full of nothing but innate ability and such natural instinct to play the game. Straight bucket-getter. If you look at a player and say that guy has a knack for scoring, that's TJ Warren to a T (no pun intended ha). He does it so quietly too.
The Suns wouldn't have been open to it though, that's one of the main reasons they shipped the Morris twin and some of the other players on the roster out of town so they could clear minutes for TJ.
Interesting to hear Stauskus talk about the impact Andre Miller had on his game last year.
Kendall Marshall certainly resembles the Miller style which is awful defense but a great distributor. There is something to be said for guys who can get the ball in shooters hands but also where the shooter wants to receive the ball.
I imagine this type of point guard has a bigger impact on one-dimensional shooters than anyone else.
Yeah, reminded me of how Noel valued having Ish as his PG.
Count me as one who would prefer they cut McConnell and Wilbekin and relagate Canaan to a bench small SG role... and hopefully sign Ish off of Waivers if/when the Wiz cut him. I'd be fine having a combination of Ish and Marshall as their stopgap PG's for the year. At least they would not hurt the development of their bigs and shooters the way their current PG's will.
Click bait with this headline:
http://mobile.philly.com/sports/sixers/?wss=/philly/sports/sixers&id=332970521
Good article on upcoming season:
http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/nba-philadelphia-76ers-preview/
Trying to dig in for another brutal year. I have tickets to 10 games, and I just cut a check. I often ask myself why...[gazing listlessly into space]
http://www.libertyballers.com/2015/10/16/9550017/sixers-joel-embiid-michael-carter-williams-sam-hinkie-the-cauldron
So LB is now officially Sam Hinkie's PR department?
I guess that's better than being an absentee blogger, so I shouldn't complain.
not sure if you saw but if we can get a new thread id appreciate it
Yeah, I'll try this weekend.
it could say "sixerfan1220 is an idiot" for all i care
I've been down on the Embiid pick since the beginning, and while I agree this article is a lot of noise, I think it does tell me that Hinkie should have done more due diligence on Embiid's attitude, not just medical evaluations.
This game was brutal. Too many of these guys are just not close to being NBA caliber talent. As far as the guys who should be in the NBA, Covington looked good on offense but my god he loses his man on the other end. Is he just not smart? He lost Porter on 4 out of the first 5 possessions of the game. How does that happen?